Do You Believe In God?

[heyrabbit]

because religion is just a more extensive set of ideas about the state of the world. whether or not there's one idea, or many ideas, it's the same.

 

being vague about a belief does'nt increase it's validity

 

 

 

I mean no offense, but I think to say that a higher power created evolution is just moving the cop-out back 6 billion years. god created evolution and THEN things began to evolve.

Edited August 4, 2007 by heyrabbit

[matrix]

So, basically, you don't believe in anything?

 

 

And, how is every person in the world an atheist?

 

And, also, your point about how religious people 'don't want to talk about it', I find complete bullshit. Most religious people will talk about their beliefs until they are blue in the face, assuming that by some magical power their voice is going to make you change your mind. Which seems like the way you are going, and I don't think many of your arguements prove valid.

Edited August 4, 2007 by matrix

[silentshadow]

because religion is just a more extensive set of ideas about the state of the world. whether or not there's one idea, or many ideas, it's the same.

 

being vague about a belief does'nt increase it's validity

 

 

 

I mean no offense, but I think to say that a higher power created evolution is just moving the cop-out back 6 billion years. god created evolution and THEN things began to evolve.

I don't see how saying that a higher power created evolution is a cop-out. I mean, if the world evolved from one huge explosion, why is not possible for something to have made that creation? If man has evolved from a monkey, why is it not possible for a higher power to have created that evolution?

Also, how do you view making your own personal beliefs independant of potentially corruptable religion to be pointless and or invalid?

 

 

 

No offense either, I was just stating my point of view, and curious about your POV too.

[matrix]

because religion is just a more extensive set of ideas about the state of the world. whether or not there's one idea, or many ideas, it's the same.

 

being vague about a belief does'nt increase it's validity

 

 

 

I mean no offense, but I think to say that a higher power created evolution is just moving the cop-out back 6 billion years. god created evolution and THEN things began to evolve.

I don't think religion has anything to do with the 'state of the world'. If you really think about it, religions are so far behind in thinking, the will never catch up to the state of the world.

[heyrabbit]

So, basically, you don't believe in anything?

 

 

And, how is every person in the world an atheist?

 

And, also, your point about how religious people 'don't want to talk about it', I find complete bullshit.

Edited August 4, 2007 by heyrabbit

[Guest Prosis]

we don't know everything, of course, but that's not a point in religions favor. philosophically I can't say a god I've never heard of doesn't exist, but I can say that jesus doesn't exist, and allah doesn't exist, and thor, and poseidon

Actually Jesus did exist...it's whether he was a messiah or not that's the question

 

And the fact that people would talk about a higher power for creating the universe or evolution is just because that's one possibility. What that higher power is no one really knows. But don't use sophism by comparing that theory to santa clause or big foot. There's a major difference in trying to explain the unknown and the yet-to-be-discovered-or-proven and children stories.

[heyrabbit]

there's no evidence of a higher power, or of jesus for that matter. what I meant to say is that the christian god doesn't exist, but you can throw jesus in there as well. you know, the trinity and all that. I don't nit-pick about that

 

it sounds silly,I know, to compare jesus with santa, but in reality it's exactly the same thing. they're both mythological characters. it's just that one is from hte 19th century, or whatever, and jesus is from the 1st century. and actually, you could say that there's a greater chance of santa existing because he is not logically false whereas christ is. it's not impossible to fly over the world, although it is impossible to be chrsit

Edited August 4, 2007 by heyrabbit

[Guest Prosis]

No I mean there is evidence that Jesus existed. Whether he did all the miracles isn't proven. But the man existed.

 

And how do you figure that there are more chances of Santa existing than Jesus (Jesus the messiah that it)?

 

And no there is no evidence of a higher power. But I don't really understand how you can live all life with its shits and goods and only believing what you see.

 

For instance, if I were to be one who believes that after death there's nothing else, then give me a hard time and I'll kill myself. Why the hell would I go through that kind of shit? You know what I mean?

[matrix]

If you want to be technical about it, Santa did exist too. Not as the fictional character you're speaking about, but the story is based off St. Nick, whom gave out gifts during Christmas time. And, tell me heyrabbit, do you celebrate Christmas or Easter? If so, I find it hypocritical that you celebrate those holidays, but you don't believe in what they are based on.

[silentshadow]

if anything means false gods from the bronze age, then no I don't believe in anything.

 

it's impossible to not be an atheist because it's impossible to believe in an infinite amount of false gods that anyone could potentially make up.

christians are atheists in regards to islam. muslims are atheists in regards to christianity. we're all atheists in regards to the existence of the easter bunny. everyone knows what it means to be an atheist. we're not only all atheists, but we're all atheists from birth because you don't come out of the womb believing in anything.

 

atheism is second predication. its true about what I'm not , not about what I am. people seem to think that it's a religion, or a set of ideas. it literally means that i don't believe in something. and that's not a bad thing

 

religion, politics and sex. they're taboo in general throughout most of the world, even in the west where our culture is conducive to debate of all kinds

 

religions are claims about the state of teh universe. they're not good claims, or correct claims, just claims.

 

 

 

 

See, what are your reasons for believing in a higher power? you say that you view your opinion as being different from religion, but it's obviously derived from it. when evolution wasn't understood, a "higher power" satisfied the question of the origin of life. now that evolution is understood, but there's no great concensus on the beginning of it, people yet again resort to the easy asnwer of "higher power". it's possible, but the point is that it's no more possible than santa, big foot, or anything else for which there is absolutely no evidence.

 

<b>there are no good reasons to believe in a higher power.</b> I don't know what you meant by that last sentence

I just think that it is a little bit naive to think that there is nothing bigger than ourselves out in the great wide universe.

 

Maybe you think that is an easy way out type of thinking? Or maybe it is just as easy to claim that God doesn't exist as it is to acknowledge that there might be a God that we just don't understand yet.

 

I'm not saying that people should worship/recognize a God; I'm just saying that I don't deny that there is a "higher being", because there is no proof supporting the claim that God doesn't exist.

[matrix]

To go along with that, I think it's a easy way to cop out to say because there's no proof, then there's no higher being. That's stupid. That's like saying because you can't see the wind, it's not there.

[silentshadow]

To go along with that, I think it's a easy way to cop out to say because there's no proof, then there's no higher being. That's stupid. That's like saying because you can't see the wind, it's not there.

that is kind of what I was trying to say

[heyrabbit]

No I mean there is evidence that Jesus existed. Whether he did all the miracles isn't proven. But the man existed.

 

And how do you figure that there are more chances of Santa existing than Jesus (Jesus the messiah that it)?

 

And no there is no evidence of a higher power. But I don't really understand how you can live all life with its shits and goods and only believing what you see.

 

For instance, if I were to be one who believes that after death there's nothing else, then give me a hard time and I'll kill myself. Why the hell would I go through that kind of shit? You know what I meant

there must have been billions of jesus's who've existed .

 

the reason why I can say that there's a greater chance of santa existing is because it's not impossible to fly around the world delivering presents. It is impossible to be the Christian(generally accepted) god. god can't be omniscient as well as omnipotent. If the christian god doesn't exist then

Jesus the messiah didn't either.

 

but to answer this quote...

No I mean there is evidence that Jesus existed.  Whether he did all the miracles isn't proven.  But the man existed.

 

I'll respond with a Matrix quote ;)

 

If you want to be technical about it, Santa did exist too. Not as the fictional character you're speaking about, but the story is based off St. Nick, whom gave out gifts during Christmas time. And, tell me heyrabbit, do you celebrate Christmas or Easter? If so, I find it hypocritical that you celebrate those holidays, but you don't believe in what they are based on.

 

As a matter of fact I haven't celebrated christmas or easter in years, although I do love the holidays and their traditions. you know as well as i do that modern day christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity apart from whoever chooses to celebrate it in that way. Christmas is more of a pagan holiday. there are more pagan traditions in christmas than actual christian traditions.

 

I just think that it is a little bit naive to think that there is nothing bigger than ourselves out in the great wide universe.

 

Maybe you think that is an easy way out type of thinking? Or maybe it is just as easy to claim that God doesn't exist as it is to acknowledge that there might be a God that we just don't understand yet.

 

I'm not saying that people should worship/recognize a God; I'm just saying that I don't deny that there is a "higher being", because there is no proof supporting the claim that God doesn't exist.

 

 

of course it's easy to claim that god doesn't exist. That's because one doesn't need to claim negatives in science. is it easy for you to claim that you don't weigh 400 lbs? is it easy for you to claim that you don't know the name of every city in Egypt?

 

so you don't deny that santa exists because there's no proof? the agnostic position holds no weight because there's no more reason to believe that a god might exist than there is reason to believe that Transformers might exist, or

ghosts might exist, fairies might exist, goblins might exist etc, or any other number of infinite possible fictional realities. a fictional negative is a completely invalid argument. Nobody ever went to jail on the basis that there might be evidence of murder etc.

 

the fact there is no evidence is not a trivial problem. I'm not being rigid in asking for evidence because evidence is what makes you believe absolutely ANYTHING, not just seemingly important questions. and you demand evidence in every other area of life.beliefs come in varying degrees of certainty. evidence is what makes you believe in something; good evidence is how "know" something is true. you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, etc. so it's a problem that there's more evidence of dirt on my shoe than of god.

 

saying there might be a god is a cop out to reason, but what am I copping out to?

 

Why is it a cop out to say there's no santa because there's no proof, but it's not a cop out to say there's no god?

[silentshadow]

Why is it a cop out to say there's no santa because there's no proof, but it's not a cop out to say there's no god?

Are you trying to tell me that Santa Clause isn't real?!

 

 

 

 

 

Jk.

 

In all seriousness though, most of your points are valid ones. Yet still I stand by saying I think God exists, however illogical that might be to you.

[matrix]

I'm not saying it's not a cop out to believe in a higher power, because it is an easy answer, but it is also an easy answer to say there is no higher power on lack of evidence, because that's a cop out too. They are both easy answers, and I'm sorry, but lack of evidence, or evidence in of itself don't mean shit. I mean, O.J. is free, right?

 

 

edit: Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in religions, and I'm seriously questioning the higher power thing as well, but for me to sit here and talk like I know all the answers would be pretty naive. People rarely make up things without previous bases on something or an experience. Therefore, I would think the bases of a god would have something to do with that. I highly doubt someone just thought it up all of a sudden and then other people followed that thinking.

Edited August 6, 2007 by matrix

[HoboFactory]

I was leaving it up for people with pro religious lyrics (not that I expected any)

Joseph Arthur's lyrics contain large amounts of Christian imagery and references, and he's actually a pretty damn good artist.

[heyrabbit]

I'm not saying it's not a cop out to believe in a higher power, because it is an easy answer, but it is also an easy answer to say there is no higher power on lack of evidence, because that's a cop out too. They are both easy answers, and I'm sorry, but lack of evidence, or evidence in of itself don't mean shit. I mean, O.J. is free, right?

 

 

edit: Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in religions, and I'm seriously questioning the higher power thing as well, but for me to sit here and talk like I know all the answers would be pretty naive. People rarely make up things without previous bases on something or an experience. Therefore, I would think the bases of a god would have something to do with that. I highly doubt someone just thought it up all of a sudden and then other people followed that thinking.

atheism is extremely easy, but it's still the most reasonable answer. it's also not a cop out because how can being alive be a cop out? what would I be copping out to? is it a cop out to be an atheist in regards to vampires?

 

the mythology/rumor phenomenon is very real and very fascinating. we've all played broken telephone, etc. all it takes for a story to become completely distorted is for one person to say one thing to one other person. Multiply that by billions of people and well, you get the idea.