The Global Warming Thread

[sodamntired]

Post your thoughts on it. Debate and Discuss. One Rule: No Personal Attacks.

 

My Opinion. Global Warming is real, but we, as a planet, are not doomed completely. We can do a lot to stop or slow down the damage we have done, and by 'We' I mean corporations such as oil companies and factories. I don't really see how I can have much of an impact by screwing in a funny looking expensive light bulb or by walking to work every day.

 

And my other problem is that by expressing this opinion, pro-earth people immediately hate me and lump me in with the "evil people" who are killing the earth and are to blame for it's destruction. "Global Warming Threat" is a buzz word on the nightly news, and it will be until they find something new to move onto. And it looks that way with China poising the youth of America.

 

And that's my opinion. Your Turn(s).

[Sparq]

1: It's real and gives me more time to ride my bike which contributes to global warming in and of itself

 

2: we'll adapt and survive for centuries to come, the first world at least

 

3: ultimately the race is doomed either way, and we can at least leave a terrible monument to the folly of runaway technology

 

4: the population could use some thinnning anyway

 

5: I fucking hate the winter

[Polyurethane]

Those funny twirly light bulbs (actually called CFLs or Compact Fluorescent Lamps), while expensive, also save you ridiculous money in the long run. The use about 1/4 of the power to produce the same light and last about five times as long, compared to your basic incandescent lamp.

[Moonlight_Graham]

My Opinion.  Global Warming is real, but we, as a planet, are not doomed completely.  We can do a lot to stop or slow down the damage we have done, and by 'We' I mean corporations such as oil companies and factories.  I don't really see how I can have much of an impact by screwing in a funny looking expensive light bulb or by walking to work every day.

I agree with you on the first part: global warning is real and we are the key contributor.

 

However, you don't see how an individual can make a difference with lightbulbs, recycling etc.? Well, no you individually can't make much of an impact. But if everyone did it? If all 300+ million in the U.S. and Canada did it it makes a HUGE impact. 1 lightbulb isn't much, but 100 million lightbulbs takes a lot of coal burning in order to power them...and that coal is throwing CO2 and other garbage into the air. Same with cars. Smog sucks.

 

Also, most countries aren't doing SHIT about this yet. Inclduing Canada, the U.S., China, India. Its bullshit & they are idiots.

 

p.s. regular incandescent light bulbs should be banned completely in Canada within 5 years. Production of new petro-fueled cars? 10 years maybe, but thats way more complicated than bulbs.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Moonlight_Graham

[sodamntired]

that would be incredible in ending the threat of global warming and our danger to the planet, but the problem is that would require people to get off their lazy asses and actually go out and do something that doesn't benefit themselves. look at the voting numbers for the President Of America compared to the voting numbers for the next American Idol. If someone could find out how to make Recycling SEXY, and those who recycle get $1000 for every coke can they put in the blue box, all while having an asshole English guy insult their merit of character while they do it and have Dane Cook say something REALLY FUNNY!, we might have a chance at saving Earth.

 

 

People are stupid. They will always look at the positive things in what they do. Not positive for the person next to them., but what's good for themselves.

[supercanuk]

The solution is the same as the cause. Small changes done at the individual level produce effects either positive or negative on the larger scale. Corporations are a significant part of it, but billions of cars on the road, and human population expansion dwarf the corporate effect. Don't get me wrong, industrialization is a HUGE factor, but what comes out of industrialization, the way we live, is not sustainable at all. In fact, developing nations are developing like we did two hundred years ago and can we really be the hypocrites and say they can't? We have to come up with new and sustainable technology fast that won't make matters worse.

Nuclear, by the way, is not the answer. I know Colin's going to harp on me about this but just the creation of a nuclear reactor is insanely dirty and produces billion of tons of CO2. Then we have NOWHERE to put the depleted uranium. Also, just the harvesting of uranium is filthy and causes huge ecological problems.

 

So basically we're fucked if we don't come up with something fast (and there are ideas, but governments don't want to put a lot of money into that right now).

 

Basically ecosystems world-wide are collapsing at an alarming rate because of this and the population size. We have to fight a two pronged battle, one that (without causing genocide) reduces the human population for the long term (i.e. education, birth control, etc) and preserve what little ecosystems are still alive so that we can stay alive.

 

Basically it's not just the earth warming up that's fucking is, its the effects of the earth warming up and our filthy unsustainable lifestyle.

 

Time to ride bikes people!

[ReaperACI]

Global warming is real. Hell, SOME of the changes may be natural as we DO have some scientific evidence to suggest that something of a MUCH lesser and less severe nature occured in the distant past. However, we are responsible for current problems.

 

Yes, we do need to make changes NOW. However, some organizations and governments are trying to claim that we need to COMPLETELY change our world and life style SIGNIFICANTLY, using limits and suggestions that are SO extreme, no one wants to take them seriously. We need to start small. FUEL efficient vehicles, flourescent bulbs, energy efficient products. Some corporations should bite their "profit tongues" and opt to lose some money now to promote cheaper energy efficient products. Who knows, maybe with our energy savings, we will buy MORE products, thus replacing or improving corporate profits. We can go from there.

 

More R&D in environmentally efficient products. We don't need to change our life styles so much that everything we know has to go bye-bye. We just need to encourage and promote (by reducing costs) energy and environmentally efficient products.

 

Kudos to corporations such as Intel for releasing computer chips that use less and less power (40-60 watts), Toyota and Honda for their new high MPG vehicles, and other corporations that have sought to make cost efficient low energy products.

Edited November 14, 2007 by ReaperACI

[ToadMan]

Every high efficiency product has a tradeoff somewhere up the line. The power efficient computer chips you talk of use a lithography process that is extremely toxic and environmentally damaging. I'm not a mechanic, so can't speak on fuel efficient vehicles, though I would assert that the complexity of their design incurs an added energy cost at production. If we talk about hybrid vehicles (which I do know a little on), the production of their battery units is extremely toxic.

 

I'm not sure if we are in any position to speak on what the real gain is for these things. The product life will determine what if any positive impact these things will have.

 

There are certainly things that appear to have a positive impact that really don't: Ethanol, burns cleaner, has greater energy density that gasoline, and comes from grains good idea right? It takes 0.2 MJ of electric energy and 9.5MJ of heat energy to extract 1 liter of Ethanol... which means the cleaner burn is lost in burning natural gas to produce heat, and in generating electric energy.

 

That's not to say I'm against high efficiency products, I'm simply pointing out that we are not in the correct position to know that we are doing any real good for mother nature.

[ReaperACI]

Ahh, I did not consider that. Teaches me for posting when I am half-asleep.

 

Yes, and simple items such as flourescent lightbulbs contain mercury which posts a health and environmental hazard should they break. One billion flourescent lightbulbs...we could end up paying more in "safe disposal" for these bulbs. Although I do use them I am extremely careful when handling them.

[Guest Prosis]

Apparently cow fart and burps represent more carbon monoxide than us...I say kill all cows!

 

No seriously, it's real and slow...but so are humans without even mentioning that we're fucking selfish...if we're all careful, eventually it would get better...

 

But really, will that ever happen?

[ReaperACI]

Eh, kill all cows! Make genetically engineered steak! On a serious note,

 

Yes, we ARE selfish. "I want my heat, my big truck, my fancy clothing, my cheap and fancy case with the cool paint, I don't want to walk, I want to have more food than I need, I don't care if Africa is starving", and so on. It goes on and everyone has at least, at the very least, ONE (and often more) thing they are selfish about. Depends on region. I like to look at some of these rich people, they build their massive homes in the middle of nowhere, have their private property, and waste energy like nothing. Manufacturing costs (energy wise) from producing batteries, electronic equipment, etc, to supplement demand. I was talking to a group of fairly wealthy kids in California, and they were going on about the new ZUNE, iPod, cell phones they just bought. "Oh, we replace them every 6 months if something new comes out or they get scratched". When we have people throwing and replacing everything every month or 6 months, that adds to a bit of the problem.

 

However, it's multi-faceted and there is NO one solution. We can start by conserving and educating ourselves. Yes, you're right, it is expensive to produce energy efficient products. We can also start by conserving in other ways.

 

Also, there is a trend, a pattern. Earth has cycles like the sun. Every so often our poles flip, our climate changes, ice ages come and go. It's natural. We are likely in one of these NATURAL conditions right now, and simply accelerating.

 

While we need to learn to conserve (and we are! I see greater knowledge and awareness of how to resolve some of these issues), we should consider that we CANNOT stop, only slow, this effect. Yes, conseration will be VERY important if a new ice-age comes, because we won't have all this wonderful space anymore fo farms and ranches, and mining/production will become more expensive. We should also look into PROTECTING ourselves from the effects, if we truly cannot stop it. How can we save ourselves from a natural ice-age?

[Moonlight_Graham]

This problem will be fixed, unfortunately, when it really starts to affect people's health substancially & when it starts affecting the bottom line for countries like the US and China. By that time of course, many things will be irreversable & countless animal species will be extinct.

 

The best thing for us to do now is do whatever you can to help the problem, and pressure your friends & family to do the same. Make your gov't know u want change, it has worked a bit so far but not enough.