Jump to content
Moonlight_Graham

Gaza Beatdown

By Moonlight_Graham, in Politics and Debate: WRONG!

Recommended Posts

bishopx

bishopx

Posted
Posted

I think it's very interesting that this shit kicked off to such a level, so quickly. I will never begrudge Israel her right to defend herself...but sweet jesus, a full scale invasion out of the blue...message sent, don't fuck with Israel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Computer

Computer

Posted
Posted (edited)
How is this any different from when the US just started carpet bombing random countries to "GET THEM TERRISTS."

 

It's not, except I don't recall the U.S. using white phosphorous shells to attack their "targets" or use them as smoke screens (complete bullshit, also the U.S. has probably used WP too I'm just not going to look it up.)

 

Because this is what happens to someone when they come into contact with it, http://theqfactor.blogspot.com/uploaded_im...ach3-718379.jpg

 

http://deadissue.com/wp-content/uploads/20...hosphorus12.bmp

 

 

What happened Israel, you used to be cool.

Edited by Crusader
pictures may shock some readers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bishopx

bishopx

Posted
Posted
It's not, except I don't recall the U.S. using white phosphorous shells to attack their "targets" or use them as smoke screens (complete bullshit, also the U.S. has probably used WP too I'm just not going to look it up.)

 

Because this is what happens to someone when they come into contact with it, http://theqfactor.blogspot.com/uploaded_im...ach3-718379.jpg

 

http://deadissue.com/wp-content/uploads/20...hosphorus12.bmp

 

 

What happened Israel, you used to be cool.

 

White Phosphorus or Willy Pete, as it's referred to by US Military troops...is a very cruel and painful way to die. Imagine being on fire, and not even water can save you. I have always felt that Israel has been justified with their "shotgun" approach method to incidents in Gaza, simply because for all intents and purposes they are surrounded...

 

However, this "do unto others..." approach is way overboard. I do agree some form of action is necessary in response to the bombings and rocket attacks...but the best path to peace of any kind, is to be the bigger man than your enemy, so to speak. This kill them all and let God sort 'em out approach bothers me a great deal. Go after the culprits, not the innocents.

 

And to answer the question, has used "Willy Pete" consistantly in armed conflict for some time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
borntohula

borntohula

Posted
Posted
I think it's very interesting that this shit kicked off to such a level, so quickly. I will never begrudge Israel her right to defend herself...but sweet jesus, a full scale invasion out of the blue...message sent, don't fuck with Israel.

 

using the word "defend" kind of disregards the entire context of the situation, don't you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bishopx

bishopx

Posted
Posted (edited)

Defend is one thing, stick one's military foot up the ass of one's opponent, is totally different. I wonder if this is more of a reaction to the general instability of the region, and to Obama's intentions to get us out of Irag and Afghanistan to a large extent. We all know what happens when there's a vacuum... So maybe this is Israel's "Hey No One Fucks With Us, Or You Get The Hebrew Hammer!!!" Statement.

Edited by bishopx
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moonlight_Graham

Moonlight_Graham

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Peeps saying this thread is late, LOL why not start it yourselves. FUCKERS I GOTTA DO EVERYTHIGN ROUND HERE?!?!?!?

 

Anyways, i agree the response by Israel is disgustingly unproportional. 4 deaths vs 400+ ? This is not the way to get Israelis and Palistinians/Arabs to come together.

 

I just look at the anomosity (sp?) between french and english Canadians & they can't get along over a fucking language, i don't know if the Israeli/Palistine conflict will ever find much peace.

Edited by Moonlight_Graham
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sparq

Sparq

Posted
Posted

Public opinion. The rockets from Gaza are poorly aimed and profoundly ineffective on any scale, but the fact is that they are an attack on Israel. Israel has to do something. If those rockets kill only one person every 6 months, they still have to do something. What else is there? The future of war is urban, and unbalanced - and it is messy. Collateral damage galore. One side should probably stop using moderately accurate airstrikes in densely populated urban areas, and the other should probably stop building it's military installations next to schools and other public buildings. Iraq has proven on several occasions since Desert Storm that doing that is not a deterrent to air strikes. This is the same air force that neutralised one man in a wheel chair with three rockets fired from an attack helicopter not too long ago, killing....what, seven people who happened to be standing nearby at the time? What do they expect? Two wrongs don't make a right, but they can solve problems, for better or worse.

 

That said, I have no real opinion as to which side to 'support'. Doesn't matter anyway, especially once it's been filtered through the media spin cycle. I just tend to look at things from a military perspective. What happens when Israel decides to invade on the ground? Look at Fallujah and Baghdad....trying to pacify one city without killing every occupant can be a collossal, grinding, brutal, high-risk task. Hamas and the civilian population of the strip will not be alone in their suffering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moonlight_Graham

Moonlight_Graham

Posted
  • Author
Posted
That said, I have no real opinion as to which side to 'support'.

 

I don't think there is a side to support. Its just two groups at war. What if Hamas or Gaza was its own country and fired rockets into Israel? Then it would just be a war like any other. But since Hamas and other "terrorist" groups aren't defined under the traditional defintion of a nation-state and are more or less rogue military group and fight using different tactics, they are stated as "terrorists", yet the goals of military warfare are mostly the same by all.

 

I think both sides should be shamed. And in terms of military tactics & technology, the U.S. and most other countries are still fighting wars like its 1945. Tanks, planes, bombs, and lots of ground troops rushing into the slaughter. A little technological creativity by a power like the U.S. could make a war like Iraq or Afghanistan go supremely better. Massive resource advantage, yet can barely hold its ground against guerilla warriors. For the world's sake i'm grateful the U.S. and other countries haven't figured it out yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sparq

Sparq

Posted
Posted
A little technological creativity by a power like the U.S. could make a war like Iraq or Afghanistan go supremely better. Massive resource advantage, yet can barely hold its ground against guerilla warriors.

 

Kinda. There is some improvement to be made, but I'm not sure there's all that much to be done in an urban environment. The only way for a power to protect it's own troops fully is to level the city from afar, and that'll mean a lot more non-combatant casualties. Anyway, those contracts for Abrams tanks and Super Hornets are far too lucrative to give up. They're just gradually going the unmanned route....Raptor UAVs and the like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moonlight_Graham

Moonlight_Graham

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Kinda. There is some improvement to be made, but I'm not sure there's all that much to be done in an urban environment. The only way for a power to protect it's own troops fully is to level the city from afar, and that'll mean a lot more non-combatant casualties.

 

That's why i think they shouldn't use ground troops at all in urban environments, at least not to initially engage the enemy. They should be using remotetly controlled man-less equipment, vehicles, small air vehicles that can fire or remotely detonate. And much more robotics. Sounds expensive, and humans are cheap so it may be a long time before they would want to use that. Its just hilarious to be that the U.S. has complete air and naval superiority over these small countries of rag-tag fighters, but the trillions spent on stealth bombers and apache aircraft aren't translated into urban fighting technology.

 

Scenario: remotely controlled flying bot zooms through the streets at night, silently slices open a window, enters building, identifies peeps as the enemy and opens fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
borntohula

borntohula

Posted
Posted
I don't think there is a side to support. Its just two groups at war. What if Hamas or Gaza was its own country and fired rockets into Israel? Then it would just be a war like any other. But since Hamas and other "terrorist" groups aren't defined under the traditional defintion of a nation-state and are more or less rogue military group and fight using different tactics, they are stated as "terrorists", yet the goals of military warfare are mostly the same by all.

 

agreed. hamas is the leading political power in palestine and was voted in democratically. if you're going to call them terrorists, even pensively in quotes, then the israeli forces are terrorists as well, especially given their devastating, heavy-handed approach at "defence." interestingly, it was the same kind of heavy-handedness on israel's behalf only two years ago that levelled much of lebanon, despite the fact that the lebanese and their government were not responsible for the acts that israel was supposedly responding to... and yet the international community sat there, quiet.

 

certainly every nation has the right to defend itself as many of you keep reiterating, but you also have to consider the situation in gaza. it's the closest thing we've seen to apartheid in a very long time. like i said before, calling this most recent attack on gaza "israel defending itself" shows a complete lack of understanding of the history of this conflict, and the strife of the palestinians. i don't support what either side does, but i think that there is a huge humanitarian issue going on right now, and it's not the palestinians who are walling themselves in, shrinking their country, and increasing the amount of sanctions and limitations on their way of life. heck, is palestine even recognized internationally as a country anymore?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shiri

Shiri

Posted
Posted

I don't think it was ever recognized as a country?

 

Anyway, here are my two cents.

 

I think this was long time coming. Rockets have been flying over Sderot and various other cities in Israel for years. The death toll is far smaller than anything going on right now in Gaza but you have to understand that people living in those cities have gotten used to living their lives between alarm to another, heading off to shelters every time it goes and fearing for their lives for literally years. As someone who experienced this kind of daily-routine for merely a month two years ago, I have to tell you that I have no idea how those people do it. It's a horrible way to raise your children and live your life but they have no choice but their homes and jobs are there and they have no other place to go.

 

Obviously I'd be a complete idiot to deny that what's going on in Gaza right now is horrible. Innocent people getting killed isn't something anyone wants to see, or at least I'd like to think so. I think nobody can really say how this operation will end and what would be its long-term results but hopefully it will change something because the situation cannot go on the way it is.

 

To be honest, I'm quite doubtful that this conflict will ever be resolved. I certainly don't believe I'll live to see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
borntohula

borntohula

Posted
Posted (edited)
I don't think it was ever recognized as a country?

 

by whom? it was made into a country after the first world war and the fall of the ottoman empire.

 

i might be wrong... i always thought that after israel declared its independence, that palestine remained a separate country, and was not immediately encompassed within israel.

Edited by borntohula
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bishopx

bishopx

Posted
Posted (edited)

Shiri is absolutely correct, it was never recognized as an actual country.

 

I'm inclined to agree that this conflict will not end anytime soon. It will continue as it always has, as a series of half hearted and tenuous ceasefires. Hamas will continue to find reasons to find fault with Israel so they can continue firing rockets, and Israel will continue with heavy handed responses that are the equivalent of Hulk Hogan going after Steve Urkel.

 

As I said earlier, I truly believe that some this stems from uncertainty on Israel's part, as to the stability of the region, if Obama does reduce US Military forces in the Middle East. That being said, I also totally agree that the Hamas backed rocket attacks, have posed a continuous threat for quite some time, and that it is an unreasonable state in which the innocent citizens of the regions under attack must live.

 

Consider this...Hamas is a 2 year old, who knows that it can aggitate the older child for a long time before the child reacts. Then when the child does react parents unfortunately, have to react against the older chold.

Same situation...Hamas fucks with Israel until, Israel finally retaliates...and here's the messed up part... When the stronger, more powerful Israel reacts...the parents in the form of world opinion turn against her. As evidenced in the latest actions in the region...now Lebanon is firing rockets at Israel. Now the more interesting thing here is that this started just as Israel was strongly considering a ceasefire...

 

Now let's tie some clever tidbits together... Oil prices are once again rising...which has been attributed to the instability in that region... anyone else see a connection here? Just who is benefiting by keeping the fighting going? Hmmmm... when the oil prices dropped so rapidly after reaching an improbable, ridiculous price...who was cleaning up at their highest profit margins ever? The funny thing about greed, is that once you get fat you keep eating.

 

Disclaimer: I am not, nor have I ever been a conspriracy theorist...this just looks blatantly obvious.

Edited by bishopx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

  I accept