41st Canadian General Election Thread

[johnny]

The Forum - IT LIVES!!!

 

All jokes aside, looks like we're destined for another federal election ladies and gents. The Bloc, NDP and Liberals have all withdrawn support for the budget and the 'Harper Government' will be falling this Friday on either the budget or a motion of non-confidence in regard to the Conservatives being in contempt of Parliament.

 

Opinions, thoughts, comments, rants? Let's try and keep it civil now... as civil as politics can get anyway.

[garsk]

it will end up a conservative minority again. very few seats will change parties, but I can see the conservatives winning again.

[Computer]

The liberals don't have the support to win a minority, it's a terrible time for them to call an election but unfortunately they may not have a better time to call one in the next few years.

[johnny]

I agree with the timing aspect - Bev Oda, contempt of Parliament, the X-35 debacle, lack of a strong voice on environmental policy, lack of a security council seat, stimulus spending, etc... but what bothers me is how little this seems to have bothered the public. There's no cry of outrage and the opposition hasn't even really played up these bungles to their full capacity. Harper's had them reacting to his moves for the past few years and making them look and sound largely ineffective.

 

My mildly-realistic hopes are for a severely reduced minority for Harper that will see him resign from party leadership and hopefully the Liberals will make some modest gains, likely at the expense of the Bloc gaining another seat or two in Quebec. I doubt the Greens will actually gain a seat as I see very little traction for them in this campaign - environmental issues seem to be taking a back seat yet again.

[borntohula]

i also don't really see this as an opportunity for things to change. then again, i think it was the cbc that noted that very few PMs last as many terms as harper has, so things might actually change.

 

overall i don't think the conservative movement has lost any ground, if anything i think the conservatism in this country has been gaining momentum.

[rebellious_L]

I agree with the timing aspect - Bev Oda, contempt of Parliament, the X-35 debacle, lack of a strong voice on environmental policy, lack of a security council seat, stimulus spending, etc... but what bothers me is how little this seems to have bothered the public. There's no cry of outrage and the opposition hasn't even really played up these bungles to their full capacity. Harper's had them reacting to his moves for the past few years and making them look and sound largely ineffective.

 

My mildly-realistic hopes are for a severely reduced minority for Harper that will see him resign from party leadership and hopefully the Liberals will make some modest gains, likely at the expense of the Bloc gaining another seat or two in Quebec. I doubt the Greens will actually gain a seat as I see very little traction for them in this campaign - environmental issues seem to be taking a back seat yet again.

 

 

I was also annoyed that the Canadian public has seemingly ignored the latest Conservative scandals. The latest Harris-Decima poll that was released indicates that the Conservatives have gained in the polls over the first few days of the election campaign. Apparently scandal and corruption within government has been given the green light by voters as we now respond with indifference towards such acts. It will be even more pathetic if Canadians are stupid enough to not see through Harper's proposed tax break for families that doesn't take effect until 5 years from now, all while giving corporations a tax break now while running up a 40 billion dollar deficit.

[Crusader]

You kids better all vote, we can't be having any of this 40% crap again.

 

I don't think this whole Libya debacle is going to be helping the Cons very much but I don't know if it's enough to get them to lose their minority government. Why are we taking over the offensive anyway? Look at how Iraq and Afghanistan are turning out, as soon as we leave they'll just come out of hiding ;)

 

Are people forgetting that the Tories have already had 7 years to fix this recession?

[johnny]

7 years? Sure, signs of impending doom might have been visible in 2007 but it didn't really come into force until later in their rule and there wasn't much they could do about it. When you rely on the US as your biggest trading partner, anything that happens in there is bound to have an effect on us and there wasn't a whole lot they could have done. Also, c'mon, we're talking politics here. When are they ever efficient?

 

I'll be voting for sure, but I wish that the 40-60% that don't vote would instead come out and spoil their ballots. That would actually send a clear message to the parties for a change.

[Kenwell]

Does anyone here actually want an election? I guess the simple answer from the Conservative leaning board members would be a resounding, "NO!" and from the Liberal/NDP/Bloc/Green/(any other party you support) would be an even louder, "YES!"

 

Most people I've talked to are tired of elections. How much will this one end up costing? No offense to the Liberal party, but why not get a new leader (I know that if the Liberals don't win this election they will NEED a new leader), and take a year to gain some considerable momentum? I have read from many sources that it would appear the Conservatives' support has peaked and will only decline as the election campaign rolls on, but to me, that seems to be leaving too much to chance.

 

This isn't Harper's first dance, he knows what to say and do and how to play to his strengths. Let's not forget that out of all the G-20 nations, Canada is behind only Germany in regards to fastest economic recovery.

[Lauren]

to me, the cost of the election is irrelevant because i consider harper a criminal and i cannot have his sort of government in power. it is not acceptable to do some of the things he has done, but what's worse is that canadians aren't noticing and those who do are made out to be radical leftists. they are getting credit for getting us through the recession, but at what cost? here is an article from the australian, though it is written by a prof from waterloo. a most excellent read.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Are people forgetting that the Tories have already had 7 years to fix this recession?

 

The Tories haven't been in power for 7 years, nor has Canada been in a recession for 7 years. I also don't think it is possible to expect any Canadian PM/government to completely "fix this recession", since the cause and recovery is widely due to global markets and the US economy, which Canada has minor influence over.

 

I also think Harper and the CPC get too much credit for Canada weathering the recession well. It was mostly our banking system & regulations which prevented Canada to go through the housing & bank crash etc. that the US went through, and these regulations were in place well before the Cons came to power. However, they deserve credit for not effing everything up. They also get too much flak for the large deficit they've run up, since deficit/stimulus spending during a recession is Keynesian economics 101 and the other major parties would almost certainly have done the same, as has much of the Western world.

 

I'm leaning to vote for the Cons. Lauren's sentiments are certainly valid, but Iggy and Layton are lying/scheming slimeballs so i don't think much would improve under them, unfortunately. I dislike the previous Con stance on Afghanistan, but thankfully that military mission is due to come to an end this year (but with training/advisers remaining, unfortunately), & Harper has expressed the sentiment that a military solution in the country is not possible. I'm left-leaning by nature, but the CPC seem to be the most competent when it comes to the pragmatic running of the state. Iggy is very unpredictable to me in his policy views. Says he's a liberal, but has many conservative views, such as supporting the invasion of Iraq 2003.

[Computer]

Lauren's sentiments are certainly valid, but Iggy and Layton are lying/scheming slimeballs so i don't think much would improve under them,

 

You just lost any credibility your post had.

[Kenwell]

I wouldn't call out one politician on being sleazy without calling them all out. It's a dirty game, and some don't have the heart to play it.

 

That being said, as a voter, I would like some honesty on the whole Coalition deal. I don't want to feel blindsided if/when the Liberals/NDP/Bloc parties do not have sufficient seats to overtake the Conservative party., and suddenly there's a coalition ready to overtake the currently sitting government.

 

It's early in the campaign, I really want to see the promises/lies (depending on how jaded or realistic you are) and see what platforms the parties are offering. I live in Ottawa Centre riding, which had been a predominant NDP riding for quite some time. So, I'm left with a few options, vote for the NDP candidate, who I have absolutely no problem with (Paul Dewar) or vote for another party, because each vote for them equals a miniscule amount of funding.

[Computer]

or vote for another party, because each vote for them equals a miniscule amount of funding.

 

Not if Harper had his way...

[Moonlight_Graham]

You just lost any credibility your post had.

 

Please explain.

[Computer]

Kenwell already said it, "I wouldn't call out one politician on being sleazy without calling them all out".

[Moonlight_Graham]

Kenwell already said it, "I wouldn't call out one politician on being sleazy without calling them all out".

 

That's pretty much exactly what i said in the phrase you quoted me.

[Crusader]

The Tories haven't been in power for 7 years, nor has Canada been in a recession for 7 years. I also don't think it is possible to expect any Canadian PM/government to completely "fix this recession", since the cause and recovery is widely due to global markets and the US economy, which Canada has minor influence over.

 

My bad, the Tories took over in 2006 not 2005. I've always just associated the start of the recession with when they took over. What I do remember though is that the Conservatives started raising the value of our dollar when we should have been keeping it down for trade and exports. They could help to "fix the recession" by lowering the value of our dollar, which we do have influence over, but our finance minister seems to think that having a higher dollar is some sort of a prize.

 

And for a "conservative" party they seem to love spending frivolously. I don't see how buying fighter jets is going to help our economy at all. Harper just seems to want a seat in the security council. He must think that we need more firepower to do that. We're also leading the attack in Libya now, that seems to back up that idea. Too bad it looks like that Gaddafi is winning back some ground. If we end up having to send in ground troops, Harper is done for.

[johnny]

What I do remember though is that the Conservatives started raising the value of our dollar when we should have been keeping it down for trade and exports. They could help to "fix the recession" by lowering the value of our dollar, which we do have influence over, but our finance minister seems to think that having a higher dollar is some sort of a prize.

 

Hold on now - the Bank of Canada has far more influence over the value of our dollar than any other apparatus. It's monetary vs. fiscal policy here and the government can't really influence the value of our dollar, as interest rates are set by the BoC in addition to all other aspects of monetary policy. The government cannot influence this, they only exert control over fiscal policy (taxing and spending). Additionally, we are a oil producing country and that has much more of an effect on our dollar than any other commodity we produce. When oil prices go up, so does the value of our dollar - it's difficult to counteract that. With interest rates as low as they are now, there isn't much else that can be done to try and 'devalue' our currency. Consumer confidence plays into this some as well - since our banking system is still fully intact, that inspires a bit of confidence in our system and can translate into international confidence in the value of our currency. So you can't really blame the Conservatives for that.

 

 

I also think Harper and the CPC get too much credit for Canada weathering the recession well. It was mostly our banking system & regulations which prevented Canada to go through the housing & bank crash etc. that the US went through, and these regulations were in place well before the Cons came to power. However, they deserve credit for not effing everything up. They also get too much flak for the large deficit they've run up, since deficit/stimulus spending during a recession is Keynesian economics 101 and the other major parties would almost certainly have done the same, as has much of the Western world.

 

I'm leaning to vote for the Cons. Lauren's sentiments are certainly valid, but Iggy and Layton are lying/scheming slimeballs so i don't think much would improve under them, unfortunately.

 

I agree with the credit side of your argument, as the Liberals would have likely done the exact same thing, albeit without the branding of the entire stimulus program. It still irks me that they've changed the colour scheme of all 'official' government advertising to blue and green. Seriously, WTF? No red? Are they that paranoid of it being associated with the Liberal party?

 

All that being the same, I will not be voting CPC due to other issues. They've handled the recession adequately and as competent as any government could (not saying they're perfect, but what government is?). They've lost my vote on numerous other issues throughout the years, in addition to waiting until after the election was called to start making all these promises. If they're going to go ahead with the loan guarantee for Lower Churchill, why not announce it with the budget? Blatant vote grab in my opinion. Income splitting in 2015 (if that projection is even correct)? It's just an attempt at a majority this time around.

 

To be fair, I'm skeptical of the Liberal education passport and the costs of such a thing. I'm not a fan of lowering the business tax rate to where it's going, but I don't advocate the planned reversal to where it was before the reduction started this year. That's going to wreak havoc on businesses that made plans around this, and it won't result in the amount of savings the Liberals say it will. I like the idea, but there needs to be more coordination among the federal and provincial governments to reduce the burden of tuition fees going forward.

[Lauren]

harper has cut funding for 11 women's rights groups. the article says that some were inefficient and/or under performing. if they are under performing, it probably says more about the government that refuses to listen or make changes than the group itself. how about they audit these groups, maybe condense if possible, and leave the women's shelters alone? "the government announced last week that it will only fund family planning, but not abortion, in its new policy," which makes abortion elitist, great. so the women who need it the most (low income) can't afford to get them. they have to live on constantly lowering welfare rates while paying for a sitter while they are doing 'community work' to be able to get welfare in the first place. and harper doesn't want to give families a dime for 5 years for child care, as he's paying off those penis-extension jets. it doesn't make sense that (neo)conservative budgets don't find it prudent to interfere with it's own busniess/society but it's happy to make room for dropping bombs on foreign countries from 30 billion dollars worth of jets.

 

we won't get a christmas bonus if we get out of the recession first. all of these guys know how to decently fixed the economy. the art is in the details.

[Moonlight_Graham]

harper has cut funding for 11 women's rights groups. the article says that some were inefficient and/or under performing. if they are under performing, it probably says more about the government that refuses to listen or make changes than the group itself. how about they audit these groups, maybe condense if possible, and leave the women's shelters alone? "the government announced last week that it will only fund family planning, but not abortion, in its new policy," which makes abortion elitist, great. so the women who need it the most (low income) can't afford to get them. they have to live on constantly lowering welfare rates while paying for a sitter while they are doing 'community work' to be able to get welfare in the first place. and harper doesn't want to give families a dime for 5 years for child care, as he's paying off those penis-extension jets. it doesn't make sense that (neo)conservative budgets don't find it prudent to interfere with it's own busniess/society but it's happy to make room for dropping bombs on foreign countries from 30 billion dollars worth of jets.

 

we won't get a christmas bonus if we get out of the recession first. all of these guys know how to decently fixed the economy. the art is in the details.

 

That article was from a year ago, and the abortion funding has to do with developing countries, not Canada. But Harper is a dick, so i wouldn't it would be disturbing to see what kind of "family planning/abortion" policies he would enact domestically if the Cons were to get a majority.

 

I hope whoever wins the election, it's a minority government. Some of the things all of these parties/leaders have pushed must be dreamed up by people on crack binges. A minority is just fine because these idiots on the Hill need some kind of check on each other because of the many dumbass ideas that fly out their mouths. I truly feel that if any of the parties get a majority, this country would go to shit for the next 5 years.

[Kenwell]

Here's what I posted on another board:

 

In terms of CBC's Political Compass, I found that the most questions were leading questions. That being said, it is evident that almost everyone who used the compass would have their results come out Liberal, or NDP.

 

This wouldn't be too much of a deal, except that the man who designed the survey and program was a former Ignatieff staffer. The CBC has always leaned a little left of centre, so in reality, this didn't surprise me at all. Obviously, there's bias in the survey. Heck, unless you're doing a survey coming all the way from Nik Nanos, there will probably be some bias in it.

 

What people should, or shouldn't be outraged at, is how the compass was marketed to Canadians. If it was marketed as a tool to help undecided voters, then there should be some anger because the outcome does not allow for very much deviation.

 

Personally, I see Canada as an incredibly diverse nation, and as a people, we have some issues that we are Conservative about, and some that we are Liberal about. It's tough when the Liberal party issues a platform that includes putting money in a military college that they closed over a decade ago. It's tough when the Liberal party includes benefits to veterans that were essentially in the failed Conservative budget. It's tough when the Conservative party is pulling punches and attacking everyone else. It's tough when Jack Layton just came off of hip surgery, had cancer, and has MPs who don't support the Liberal or Conservative agenda.

 

In the end, unless someone messes up huge, we're heading for another minority government. People don't trust Harper enough to give him a majority, and people don't feel confident enough in Ignatieff to hand him any sort of power aside from being the official opposition. The Conservatives peaked too early, and the Liberals are fooling themselves into thinking that their platform is awesome and people will be swayed. The NDP do not stand a chance.

 

I'm sorry, but this is how I see it all playing out. I will calmly await election day and cast my vote.

 

The last election has a record low turnout, and this one is shaping up to break that record. The people have become disenfranchised with the system, the parties, the party leaders, and the bullshit. It would appear to many that voting is not an affirmation of personal rights, it is a submission to a broken system full of perpetuating lies, and mistrust.

[Sparq]

This is a bizarre conundrum for be, singularly because I enjoy firearms. Basically, the Convervatives are the only party that has any chance of winning and is even narrowly pro-gun....but I don't agree with a lot of their other policies outside of military spending (and even there, the JSF project is way out of line). The problem is that I'm more Liberal or NDP in most other policies. If you take a moment to think about it, it should be the more left-wing Lib/NDP types who should be ploughing the ammo fields - the Libertarians are the ones who should be pro-gun, not the almost-fascist Cons. Same in the US - the Dems should be the ones harping on personal freedom, not the nutbox bible-thumper religeous-right Republicans. I've recently had to come to terms with the fact that no major party actually wants firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens, it's just a campaign promise to get the more ignorant among us to vote Conservative and the more frightful and naive to vote otherwise. Once absolute power is a achieved by ANY party, legal civic ownership of firearms will be the first thing to go. It has happened over and over historically, and it will happen again. The RCMP and CFO are already creating their own policies and confusing them with "law" without the backing of the courts or feds, but no challenge to their absurd decisions has been made....hmmm...

 

So am I disenfranchised? Yes. Absolutely. Every major party wants exactly the same thing, they're just all making different promises to get backing from different demographics. They are all corrupt, and they are all incompetent. we will vote for them, and they will repay us with getting rich off the downfall of the Western world.

 

the zombie apocalypse is a metaphor for anarchy and freedom

Edited April 6, 2011 by Sparq

[Computer]

I found this to be pretty hilarious.

 

http://thingsharperdoestoseemhuman.tumblr.com

 

Also, Sparq, I'm writing a newspaper report about Canada's gun control policy.

Harper just promised the other day to abolish the long gun registry, but given the conservative track record, you'll probably just see another amnesty granted once the original one (May 16th, 2011) rolls around.

[ToadMan]

HAHAHA... so funny.