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zenkey

Why Isn't Dave Genn Credited In Old Fighters?

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Looking at the liner notes, it says "All songs written by Matthew Good except where noted". However, I noticed Ian Browne and Richard Priske listed in the copyright section of Load Me Up (live), but no Dave Genn. Nor is Genn credited for any of the other MGB tracks that were typically credited to Good/Genn.

 

Anyone know why this is?

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All songs even in MGB were actually written by Matt and some were credited to Good/Genn. Matt explained that there was a lot of that sort of "politics" in the band where people would be credited where they shouldn't have been and that includes the songs credited to all four members.

 

In MGB, as with his solo career, Matt wrote the bulk of the songs and the band would add their own flavour. The lead on Giant and Load Me Up for instance were in fact created by Dave Genn. The bass line/drums of Indestructible was created by Geoff Lloyd and Ian Browne. And so on.

 

That is why songs are not credited to Good/Genn on AOB. I think Matt had enough and decided he would give credit where due only and that was on Tripoli, The Fall of Man and Under the Influence. The remainder was credited solely to Matt. From what I understand that was part of why the band broke up. I remember when I ran the official French MGB website back in 2001; I put up the Audio of Being tracklisting before the record came out and followed the same pattern as with Underdogs and Beautiful Midnight which was to write “All songs written by Good/Genn except where noted” and added a note to The Fall of Man and Under the Influence. Matt wrote me an email that very night telling me to remove this notice and replace it by “All songs written by Matthew Good except where noted” which was Tripoli, The Fall of Man and Under the Influence. Of course, being clueless as to what was going on in the band and how the band worked, I was surprised at how fast this happened and felt bad for putting this up early. I was young, I learned! :P

 

Therefore, my theory would be that if Dave wasn't credited in Old Fighters on songs he originally was, maybe that's because he wasn't supposed to be in the first place and that, given that Old Fighters was released everywhere except Canada, maybe Matt had the opportunity to set the record straight.

 

Now this is only a theory based on things Matt did explain in the past. Matt could explain it if he wants. But given it's all kind of personal stuff; I doubt that you will have an official answer.

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Thanks for the reply. I was actually ripping the disc to my computer and entering the appropriate info into the "composer" fields and noticed the info was different from my rips of "Underdogs"/"Beautiful Midnight". It's strange to have the same songs from two different albums and have the "composer" fields vary between them.

 

Anyhow, the original album recording of "Giant" is on Old Fighters and does not have a "Dave Genn" credit there. That is odd since I thought he had quite an influence on the guitars on that track (which is confirmed by what you've stated). I figured his contribution to that track was one reason the lead guitar and solo were played differently during Matt's live shows in recent years.

Edited by zenkey
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Maybe there's a difference between coming up with such riffs and actually writing a song. But Matt would explain it better because I don't know how it works. I do remember Geoff Lloyd not being too happy to hear that Matt had apparently authorized Simple Minds to use Indestructible for their song "Cry" because he came up with the bassline. But he would not go any further because it was too personnal. But if you search in the Ask Geoff thread you can find the message.

 

Giant though has always been played the same as on the record except for the solo. But I think that's just Matt giving complete creative freedom to the players. Jimmy plays the Non Populus solo differently as well. Pat used to improvise as well on his drum fills. And Christian used to play Load Me Up differently because Matt said he didn't like the riff at the time. So I think the live portion has more to do with them being creative than with writing credits.

 

But is it only while you're ripping the disc or is it not credited in the liner notes?

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Matt did a recent interview where he touched on the song credits issue, basically saying he was very generous with the writing credits back in the hay day of MGB, and gave Dave attribution on songs he really had very little role in crafting. Seems he decided to correct that with the release of Old Fighters.

 

Here's the interview in question (relevant portion is at the 25:00 mark):

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If it's written in the liner notes without Genn, it's a mistake. I could see a situation where a songwriter might make an agreement (financial, etc) to remove themselves from credit on a song. But Genn is still credited on "Giant" and "Load Me Up" in SOCAN's database, so I can't imagine that such an arrangement exists.

 

How the song was written often has nothing to do with how songs are credited. The Beatles' "Yesterday" was entirely written by Paul McCartney. But it's credited as "Lennon/McCartney" because Lennon and McCartney had agreed at the beginning of their career to share credit for anything they wrote for The Beatles. Their agreement also stipulated that Lennon's name come first (largely for aesthetic reasons - they decided it "looked" better that way). But, in later years, it became a source of contention, particularly in songs that Lennon and McCartney wrote independently of each other. McCartney, at one point, asked for sole credit on "Yesterday", and Yoko refused. When McCartney reversed the credits on a live album ("Paul McCartney and John Lennon"), Yoko again complained, and McCartney apologized. (I don't think it ever got to legal.)

 

But, honestly, as long as Genn is credited for those songs in SOCAN, he should be credited in the liner notes. I can't imagine that Matt would avoid crediting him out of spite - seems petty. I don't own Old Fighters, so I don't know if Matt had final oversight on artwork/etc, but I'd wager it's just a goof.

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That was part of my hypothesis. Isn't SOCAN only in Canada? If so, maybe he grabbed the occasion to set the record straight in the rest of the world IF credit wasn't due. Or it could be a mistake but it would be quite a big one.

 

And I believe Paul suggested McCartney/Lennon and they fought over it... I think I heard him say that in an interview. But I could be wrong. ;)

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That was part of my hypothesis. Isn't SOCAN only in Canada? If so, maybe he grabbed the occasion to set the record straight in the rest of the world IF credit wasn't due. Or it could be a mistake but it would be quite a big one.

 

And I believe Paul suggested McCartney/Lennon and they fought over it... I think I heard him say that in an interview. But I could be wrong. ;)

 

Yeah, the specific omission of just Dave suggests this isn't a mere oversight by the folks at Frostbyte.

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i have no idea what Dave's role was in the songwriting, but there are some fun little musical idiosyncrasies that seemingly left Matt's music when he did. maybe that was just Matt's own taste changing, i really don't know. i do personally feel he was the best lead guitarist for MG.

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That was part of my hypothesis. Isn't SOCAN only in Canada? If so, maybe he grabbed the occasion to set the record straight in the rest of the world IF credit wasn't due. Or it could be a mistake but it would be quite a big one.

 

And I believe Paul suggested McCartney/Lennon and they fought over it... I think I heard him say that in an interview. But I could be wrong. ;)

 

The works are usually registered in the country of origin and then handled internationally by the proper affiliate. In Matt's case, they're registered with SOCAN, but administered in the US by ASCAP. I'm pretty sure that's not a separate registration. Regardless, ASCAP's database credits Genn as well. I'm still leaning toward goof.

 

Yeah, they fought over it. Another story was that they went Lennon/McCartney because L came before M. (I'm not sure when it was finalized, though - I think Please Please Me had the credits as McCartney/Lennon, so it wasn't something that happened right away. I have a feeling that McCartney simply acceded to Lennon's assholishness and explained it using those other anecdotes.)

 

 

 

EDIT - Actual Answer

 

Finally found a copy of the Old Fighters liner notes, and I can tell you exactly why Genn isn't mentioned.

 

He is. The songs aren't being credited to the writers by their names - they're being credited to their publishing names. Genn's SOCAN publishing name is Bridgeburner Music, which is credited. (Matt's is Dunharrow Music.) Ian and Rich just publish under their own names, which is why their names are listed.

Edited by uglyredhonda
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Ah, so Bridgeburner IS related to Dave Genn. I did notice all the MGB songs on Old Fighters had a Bridgeburner Music copyright line. I suspected this had something to do with Dave Genn, but I didn't immediatey find anything that linked Genn to Bridgeburner. I also assumed "Bridgeburner" might have just been linked to the record deal MGB had, since it appears on all the MGB tracks in this collection (only Underdogs and Beautiful Midnight tracks).

 

Anyhow, it is interesting the liner notes don't actually say, "Written by Genn/Priske/Browne". After all, it does state "All songs written by Matthew Good except where noted". The layperson doesn't see any notes about other writing credits anywhere. I wonder if it actually was a mistake to not include traditional "Written by" statements. I have never seen writing credits done solely with copyright information.

Edited by zenkey
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