New Demos Going Up (Chaotic Neutral)

[foats]

If it has been mentioned I apologize, but is Holly going to be performing with Matt on his upcoming tour? 

[adam_777]

I've always wondered if bands and artists over the last 30 years had been subjected to the 45 minute time limit vinyl typically provides, if release would be more concise, have a clearer direction and a more unified theme.  Some of my favourite albums of all time are also some of the shortest.  Speaking of Shine on your Crazy Diamond, it always amazed me that when limited to a shorter time frame, certain bands were not afraid to experiment with individual songs that would on occasion take up to a full side of a record.  It's amazing to me that as album lengths increased the long term experimentation decreased, obvious proof that the album was dead...sad truth is most people will not bother with a song that takes 4 minutes to hit vocals, the music listening public is a play and dispose mentality...I know people who will only listen through the first chorus, then skip the track.  Unbelievable!

I think every fan has an ideal of a perfect experience with their favourite artist.  For some its maybe more on the unrealistic side, like a concert in their backyard...Others might just want to express to the artist how their music makes them feel, or hear their favourite song.  Many of the diehards here benefit from having some form of interaction with their favourite artist in the form of something more tangible than getting retweeted.  Matt drops in to offer insight into the recording process, the touring plans and gives us a healthy dose of the realities of the music business, as it was and as it currently is.  I think for the most part that creates a fair amount of respect around here and people realize that maybe some of their biggest wishlist items might just not be doable.  

On the other hand, there have been several instances when Matt has done things that have totally blown our minds.  For me personally I had a list of favourite songs that I would have loved to hear live.  Most were rarer songs in the live repertoire, some hadn't been played in over a decade.  I've been to hundreds of concerts in my life, and usually my wishlist of rarities is just that a wish list.  Because Matt tunes in here once in awhile though, he does sometimes manage to squeeze some of these songs frequently asked for by fans into the setlist.  Two of the songs I most wanted to hear were Running For Home and A Boy and His Machine Gun, both of which I was fortunate enough to hear over the last few years and honestly I doubt either would have been the case if it wasn't for Matt stopping by here to read this forum.  It's something I am immensely grateful for and it keeps me coming out 4-5 times every tour because I feel respected as a fan, something rare in any form of entertainment. 

I've never had an issue with the dreaded demoitis.  I've always appreciated having what essentially is like an outtake of a song.  It gives me two, sometimes more versions of a song to listen to, I can always choose to listen to my favourite version if I dislike one or the other, for that freedom of choice we are really spoiled if we bitch about it because its something that quite frankly you don't usually get from a band...Led Zeppelin just issued a whole catalog of releases based on demos...nearly 50 years after their first album was released! I'd say be thankful you have an insight into that process.  Also how many rarity songs have we gotten from that process that never made it onto albums? A song like Dusk alone is worthwhile to me. And then we get things like Live Road, to offer again another take this time on some of our favourite songs, this time in a live setting.  I mean as fans we really do get alot, and astonishingly most of it is coming at us, absolutely free of charge.  

Truth is we're somewhat spoiled as fans because of our interactions with the artist, But I think most people are just trying to suggest what they personally feel is the path the music should take...it's intriguing to be able to engage Matt in this way and get his honest feedback about why something works and why it doesn't.  As fans we naturally tend to be unrealistic because we have no responsibilities to the lifestyle of the artist...we want our own ideals without necessarily considering the logistical strain they might leave on the artist.  As a fan, I'll keep my head in the clouds, But I respect Matt for coming by to explain reasons why I had best also keep my feet on the ground.  

I never thought I'd ever have those albums I love like Beautiful Midnight in vinyl, it never seemed like something even remotely possible to me, But here we are and it sounds like it will happen at some point in the future, and its just one more thing that makes me thankful to be a fan.  The concept of a concert playing an entire album, I personally love the idea, I think most here would, whether it's something the casual fan would be interested in, well that's not for me to say, I'm well past the point of understanding the needs of a casual fan.  

One concept that always appealed to me was the idea of a crowd funded show.Figure out the logistics and expenses that play into a fan club style show, small venue, rehearsal time to learn some fan voted songs everything else involved and then do a kickstarter style campaign for a few major cities.  If there isn't enough interest the campaign won't raise the money and the show won't happen...if there is enough interest the show happens and those who donated a predetermined minimum amount get a ticket or something like that.  

Also, Matt, one thing that confuses me somewhat is over the past few years I've followed your posts where you discuss the expenses of touring and rehearsing and all the other things that go into touring with a full band.  It's surprising to me, that you haven't toured Canada acoustically since 2007.  From what I've seen your acoustic audience is in the same vicinity as your full band audience and obviously your expenses are considerably less.  I've seen a few times where you've mentioned particularly enjoying solo tours and tentative plans to launch them, But nothing has come from it.  The Vancouver Secret show of 2012 is still the best show I've ever seen and I'd love to see more concerts in that vein some day.  

[Outtahere]

One thing that never fails with you guys is that you have EXCELLENT conversations that are filled with ideas, feedback, personal insights, stories that are relatable to help provide context, and think outside of the box about things in ways I don't. I post here because you guys are honest about your feelings regarding my work, and as long time fans I take it very much to heart.

 

If there were 39 hours in a day and I had the time to focus on a lot of the ideas that have been tabled - I'd probably be all over them. Unfortunately, at 44, with three kids and given that when my wife works when I'm not working I run the household, my days are filled with cleaning, consoling scrapped knees, cooking, playing Lego, turning baths into sea adventures, and then at night trying to do some work which is always pointless because I'm just wiped out - in a good way. Unlike a lot of musicians, I don't pick up a guitar for weeks, sometimes months, at a time.

 

My biggest battle - one that my management has been valiantly addressing for over a year and a half, is the vinyl issue. The reality there is that finding manufacturers that produce top quality stuff means a long wait. Plus, when you're transferring everything to vinyl you have to deal with the fact that you wrote records for the digital format.

 

Dark Side Of The Moon was 43 minutes long. Hospital Music is 63 minutes, Beautiful Midnight is 65 minutes, Avalanche is almost 70 minutes. The production costs for all the records combined is significant especially given that the majority of sales will be online. Right now, I'm struggling to get Beautiful Midnight out for the last half of the tour, and online. But right now it's not looking good. Universal has to be involved and are doing all they can, but they've had manufacturing set backs, having to return to a European manufacturer that they know does quality work. If it were just about business I'd do Underdogs because I own the masters, but I know BM would be the most popular.

 

Would I ever do shows of an entire record? Yes, I would. Right now is just not the right time. But it's not something I'm at all against.

 

I guess that's a double edged dagger when it comes to length with a CD, it can be longer than vinyl (from what I understand anyway). It's cool but then you have to face some headaches if you want to put it on vinyl. Does it cost a lot more to press a double or triple vinyl?

[Prairieboy]

Lol, that's the crazy part of getting older - not having enough time in the day and wondering what the hell you did with all of your time in your 20's :) Would be wonderful to have the vinyl whenever it comes. Re: CN - honestly, every song has become a favourite right now. Love the upbeat sound of No Liars, if I'm in a pissy mood then Girls in Black hits the spot, and if you decided to write every single future song like Tiger By The Tail - I'd be thrilled with that too. The whole 'playing an entire album live' concept would be fantastic....unless if you showed up to play the Raygun EP then walked off stage, I'd be choked lol :) Speaking of which...I found some early 2000's bootlegs of live shows on an old computer at home....that Gen X-Wing into Load Me Up live 1-2 punch is ridiculous - fell in love with it all over again!

[uglyredhonda]

I guess that's a double edged dagger when it comes to length with a CD, it can be longer than vinyl (from what I understand anyway). It's cool but then you have to face some headaches if you want to put it on vinyl. Does it cost a lot more to press a double or triple vinyl?

 

CDs can go to about 80 minutes.  For a little while, bands tried to see what they could do to max it out (albums like RHCP's Blood Sugar Sex Magik) before they started to realize that people didn't really need that much music in one release.

 

Vinyl tops out at about 45 minutes (both sides combined) before the sound quality starts to diminish.  (For those who remember blank cassettes - the most popular length was 90 minutes - you could usually get one entire album on each side.)  In the 60s and 70s, it was really common for albums to only be 35-40 minutes long - and you'd get about one album a year at that length.  Even through the 90s - a lot of Top 40 and Country albums were only that long, even on CD.  It was really Alternative that was pushing for longer length.  (Arrows of Desire is about 42, which is pretty much perfect for one vinyl.)

 

(The famous double albums, like the The Beatles white album, max out at about 90 minutes.  A lot of them actually fit on one CD.  In the CD era, Billy Corgan went way past that with Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness - it runs over two hours.  And it probably would have been better as one CD.  I think it was a triple album on vinyl.)

 

Back before vinyl was mostly phased out in the 90s, it was relatively common for songs to be flat-out cut from the album on the vinyl release to keep it to one disc.  (I've got a few CDs that actually say "* CD-only bonus track" on the tracklist.)

 

When vinyl was more readily reasonable to produce, some bands released longer albums (ie 60 minutes) by issuing them as two 45rpm albums.  The sound quality is actually a fair bit better that way.  But, again, now it's a double album.

 

And that's the thing - when you produce double albums, you're doing the work of two albums.  The mastering and pressing of each record in a double album is exactly the same.  (You might save a smidge on the artwork design costs.)  But you can't really charge double for a double album (especially since they're already charging $20-$30 for a single one).

 

 

Also, I cannot tell you how much I wish Universal could just do another pressing of that exact Avalanche vinyl release from 2003.

[Outtahere]

uglyredhonda: Thanks for the info! :)

One thing that never fails with you guys is that you have EXCELLENT conversations that are filled with ideas, feedback, personal insights, stories that are relatable to help provide context, and think outside of the box about things in ways I don't. I post here because you guys are honest about your feelings regarding my work, and as long time fans I take it very much to heart.

 

I wanted to commend you on your ability to negative (respectful) comments. Taking positive comments is easy. But everytime you release a record or a demo, you come here and see something you've worked on be reviewed and although most comments are positive, some are negative. Yet you reply to them in a respectful and sometimes insightful manner. That takes a certain amount of character.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Tips

[Outtahere]

I can't edit it anymore but the first phrase should read "I wanted to commend you on your ability to take negative (respectful) comments." and not "I wanted to commend you on your ability to negative (respectful) comments." but I think you understood :P

[AnOceanPearl]

Looks like Holly McNarland will be joining Matt onstage in Toronto.

 

https://instagram.com/p/8vqRhIuDPc/

[foats]

Wouldn't it be amazing to see a Matt and Holly duet of "Running For Home"?        I saw Matt is playing 3 nights in Toronto.   I could see it now  "3 nights at the Danforth live cd/dvd set"    I'd pay $50-$75 for all 3 nights  how about you guys?

[Moonlight_Graham]

Looks like Holly McNarland will be joining Matt onstage in Toronto.

 

https://instagram.com/p/8vqRhIuDPc/

 

That's really cool.

[gweeps]

Been listening to No Liars while reading articles on the upcoming election. Seems fitting. Sadly, strategic voting ain't gonna work where I live.

 

BTW, I'm wondering about the cover art. Is that him on the front? One of his children? It's creepy. Looks like there's blood all over his face. I'm probably wrong though.

 

I really like the inside layout. It's peaceful. Interesting contrast.

[gweeps]

Oh, and I don't think the studio album is a dead art form. Sure, iTunes makes music into the equivalent of a row of cereal boxes in a  grocery store. There's 30 kinds and how do you pick the one you really need? You're always going to have those who can't decide, so they choose the most sugary option. But for the careful and patient, the appropriate brand is waiting for you to buy.

 

I buy single songs from iTunes, hmvdigital.ca and CDBaby. I also buy albums (CDs), but don't always listen to them straight-through after the first few listens every time I want to hear a song from one. Occasionally I'll put the album on shuffle to hear how things sound that way. Some songs stick more than others. But if you have the album, you can always go back and try again. It's never-ending the joy a fully-realized album brings. May take some time to hear it. So there's options.

[Guest Idioteque]

Been listening to No Liars while reading articles on the upcoming election. Seems fitting. Sadly, strategic voting ain't gonna work where I live.

 

BTW, I'm wondering about the cover art. Is that him on the front? One of his children? It's creepy. Looks like there's blood all over his face. I'm probably wrong though.

 

I really like the inside layout. It's peaceful. Interesting contrast.

He lured the child at the beach, but in the end did get permission from the parents after taking the photos.

 

Or it may be his son with mud all over his face.

[Manchalivin]

I really like the bass playing on this album, especially on Girls in Black.  That deep bass in a few parts.

[Manchalivin]

I think Cold Water and Los Alamos are really well done on the album.  The way the latter is done is growing on me.  I think I was just too attached to the nitty gritty of the demo and after a while of hearing the album version you start to forget exactly how the demo varies.  I really enjoy the dynamics of Girls In Black and Army of Lions.  AOL is far superior to the demo in my opinion.  It has such a commercial quality to it and a little bit of a retro sound, it's very interesting and enjoyable.  It kind of reminds me a bit of Audio of Being.  This album has such a nice mix of songs and sounds and Warne really does get a quality of sound that is nice to hear.

[AnOceanPearl]

I really like the bass playing on this album, especially on Girls in Black.  That deep bass in a few parts.

 

Definitely sounds like there's an octave pedal being used in some bits.

[finboy]

I've been hearing vinyl pressing issues from a LOT of artists lately, k.flay took months to get vinyl out because they had to scrap the whole first batch. I'm going to take a guess that the pressing plant "out west" was the new one in calgary, if the pressing didn't go well that really is sad to hear, I had high hopes that they would help calgary's status as a cultural city grow.

 

Glad to hear you are pressing on with the back catalogue Matt, as one of your long time fans, I think I can speak for many when I say we have all the time in the world to wait for the right product.

[Gomo]

Maple Music said the vinyl would start shipping October 25th. It's October 26th now, and I haven't received any notifications about any shipment. Order history page also still says it hasn't been prepared for shipment yet...and I've waited for the digital download all month as that only comes with the vinyl...kinda got burned buying the vinyl and not the CD.

 

Oh well.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Gomo

[Guest Idioteque]

Considering all the vinyl problems lately I'd be patient. Also on their page it says this

 

Please note, this is a pre-order product. Orders containing this item will not begin shipping until the end of October 2015, exact date to be confirmed

 

so we should wait until the end of the month before we should worry, I feel your pain though about the digital download, we should have gotten those a long time ago.

[Gomo]

Yeah I can wait on the vinyl itself and I totally understand the challenges associated with that...but there should have been a better system in place for the digital download. I don't blame Matt Good of course...this is on Maple Music.

 

It is what it is.

[mackie1023]

I....completely forgot about my order! I'm impatient so I purchased the iTunes download. With my luck it will be shipped out while I'm on my roadtrip up to the show. I will have to make sure to have the post office hold my mail.

[Guest girl]

I don't know how you guys do it. You guys have major patience. I give you props for going with the flow and not complaining. That's a looooooooong time to wait for a digital download. Yup, ideally the digital download should have come on the purchase date of the vinyl. It's a no brainer.

[Prairieboy]

Here's an interesting article on the whole issue of vinyl backlog: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/sep/20/music-vinyl-records-new-pressing-plant-portland-oregon?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[mackie1023]

Just checked the online store....

 

"presale vinyl ships on or around November 27, 2015. Date is subject to change."

 

 

Mhmmm.

[Gomo]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh  :|

Edited October 27, 2015 by Gomo