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Crusader

Chaotic Neutral 2015/2016 Tour Dates

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first orf all, huge MG fan. Both physically & figuratively. I am OK with standing during the harder rocking songs, but there were sometimes when a small group of people were standing. I did ask nicely at first if this group could sit down especially during Harrigan & cold water. The group just said that if the other people want to see they'll should of bought better seats & the other just told me to fuck off. That's when I did a little freestyling lyrics to cold water singing about being considerate to others. That's when the group start to sit down one by one. They also got applauded when they sat down. One guy in the white striped shirt told me to shut up or he'll kick my ass. But once everyone was able to enjoy the show, it was probably the best MG concert I've been to for a long time. Despite having to ask people to chill for the slow songs at least.

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I was one of the two standing in row G with my friend. I wear earplugs at shows, because I go to a lot of them and I already have tinnitus from loud rock music, so I'm trying to protect my hearing from further damage. I couldn't hear the audience behind us, but apparently there was a very obnoxious guy chiding us and telling us to sit down during Cold Water. I'm paraphrasing, but I believe he was like, "Sit down! This is a slow song!" My friend to the left of me, who was also sitting, turned around and told him to be quiet in a very firm way. A lady came down and spoke to my friend and she asked us to sit, because the guy yelling at us was ruining it for everyone.

 

My standing friend was very upset, because he couldn't understand why everyone would come and sit at a rock show.

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Oh yeah I just remembered! I wanted to ask Matt if he preferred GA venues or seating venues, what the pros and cons are. Maybe if he pops in he could answer.

 

Personally if I'm within the first 3 rows of a concert, if I stand I stand & there's not a whole lot anybody can do about it. Not trying to be a dick but it's a rock concert plain & simple. Also if 1 band member motions for the crowd to stand that's permission to get up.

 

If you go on Matt's instagram he's taken some photos of the crowds & what you'll notice is the left side is usually standing & the right side sitting, reminded me of +19 section vs all ages at festivals.

 

Venues could make standing/sitting sections but the hassle that goes into that just to satisfy maybe a dozen people at most who can't grasp the concept of a rock concert is counterproductive.

 

Either get front row & sit so nobody can obstruct your view or sit further back so you can still see over people, it's why venue pits are built on an angle for Christ sakes.

 

2 hours max to not sit on your ass & enjoy yourself is a pretty sweet deal. My first Matthew Good concert & Pearl Jam I've been stuck next to girls who sit and play with their phones the entire time so I have no pity for the sitters.

 

Even though the second Vancouver show I stood for the entire concert & had a man sitting behind me occasionally standing (next to these ladies who constantly complained about people standing) but he ended up having a cane & I felt bad for not noticing. I said sorry after the show but he said it was fine & was happy I enjoyed myself. If I knew beforehand I probably would have given my seat & just stood behind him. But you could blame that on poor handicap sections at The Vogue, but that's besides the point.

 

You're paying +$60,

It's 2 hours max,

It's a rock concert,

Stand the f*ck up.

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I don't know. Since I personally experienced it last night, I can say it really hurt the experience for my friend, especially when the people behind us applauded when we sat down. I don't get it. I think it has a lot to do with a lot of people being there for a social experience and not the music.

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I feel your pain. As a music lover myself who has gone to hundreds of concerts within the span of 3-4 years (just saw my 11th Matthew Good show) crowds can be weeeeird. That's why at every concert I make sure I'm right near the front, so I don't have to experience the chaotic mess behind me & have the best time possible.

 

I've become an expert at scoping the best places to stand & not have anyone bump into me. I've had entire circle pits with 1000 angry men barely grazing my back at Lamb of God concerts or crowd surfers & stage divers hit everybody else but me. Yet the most dangerous thing you can run into at a concert is a grumpy couple sitting behind you, not a whole lot you can do in that situation.

 

GA all the way!

 

It can't just be me but doesn't sitting down while watching a band go absolutely nuts on stage make you feel like you're at a zoo? That's when it feels like I'm watching people work, then its weird from there. The band & the crowd feeding off eachother is probably the greatest feeling ever. I've been at rock concerts that felt like I was at an EDM concert, the entire crowd moving as one like a wave.

 

I tried starting a mosh pit at Rock The Shores during Jimmy Eat World & the parents covered their children's eyes & people looked absolutely shocked. Like out of nowhere at a rock concert a group just went f*cking nuts & starting attacking anyone near them. Which if you think about it a mosh pit wouldn't be socially acceptable anywhere outside of a venue, can't really pull that off in a train without walking away with some glares, possible jail time.

 

The point of the story is the singer of Jimmy Eat World walked over to our side of the stage & smiled at us having fun. Because lord knows they probably don't want to be staring at a bunch of emotionless faces sitting OR standing.

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I do agree that if you're at the front you're pretty much guaranteed to have a good time without having to worry about the crowd. I usually only get to the front if I'm alone though. Usually when I'm meeting someone to go to the show or bring my gf it's pretty hard to convince them to arrive early, stand in line longer, and stand in front for everything including opening act. And you don't have many opportunities to leave that spot to go to the bathroom or something like that. You really have to commit.

Edited by Gomo
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Last night was my thirteenth show. The sitting thing seems to be pretty common to me at MG shows. I think only four of the shows have been GA, two of them being acoustic, so that doesn't give me a really great sample to work with. I was at the front for all of those though and had no trouble.

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Guest girl

I don't know. Since I personally experienced it last night, I can say it really hurt the experience for my friend, especially when the people behind us applauded when we sat down. I don't get it. I think it has a lot to do with a lot of people being there for a social experience and not the music.

 

Yeah, I was wondering what the people were clapping about.

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People loudly and en mass applauded you guys sitting down?  Rock is Dead.  

Edited by adam_777

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Well, an audible number of people applauded. It sounded like a decent amount.

Edited by NonPopulus

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Closer to the front sometimes means hopefully bigger fans and therefore less chitter chatter. I used to be a hardcore booze hound so I understand the appeal but come on. Talking during an MG show is just sacrilegious. It makes me want to throttle people. In fact how about not talking during any live concert? If you're bored you can leave.

 

On another note, I am just thrilled that you loved your first Matt live experience!!! Did you ask him a question during the Q&A?

Sadly I did not have the courage to get on the microphone hahaha... But I did enjoy hearing others ask questions. 

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Quick question: How long after the "start" time does Matthew Good start? Because the Winnipeg show starts at 8 i think, but my gf's medical condition means she runs out of energy pretty fast (MS) so I don't want us getting there too early and have her get tired. Any help? It's assigned seating so we can get there right before he starts if we need to.

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For the show in Calgary he got on at about 9 and was over shortly after 1030. He seems pretty punctual about it. 

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Guest girl

first orf all, huge MG fan. Both physically & figuratively. I am OK with standing during the harder rocking songs, but there were sometimes when a small group of people were standing. I did ask nicely at first if this group could sit down especially during Harrigan & cold water. The group just said that if the other people want to see they'll should of bought better seats & the other just told me to fuck off. That's when I did a little freestyling lyrics to cold water singing about being considerate to others. That's when the group start to sit down one by one. They also got applauded when they sat down. One guy in the white striped shirt told me to shut up or he'll kick my ass. But once everyone was able to enjoy the show, it was probably the best MG concert I've been to for a long time. Despite having to ask people to chill for the slow songs at least.

 

Are you talking about the same Calgary show? That's harsh. I can't stand it when people tell total strangers to fuck off for no good reason. I see it a lot with road rage downtown. Crazy drivers almost run over pedestrians, and the drivers give them the finger or tell them to fuck off.

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I saw some dude trying to jump over a chair and fight somebody and was yelling at them to shut up... I wonder if that was that altercation. He also had a striped shirt, and did he have glasses?! 

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Oh my goodness. I was not aware of this! Did everything turn out ok, mrchipps? I'm glad you still enjoyed the show. It was one of my favorite shows and when my friend told me a lady asked us to sit, I was like, "ok, if that's the vibe." Like I said, I couldn't hear the exchange of words with my earplugs. Also, I'm guessing you must have been a couple rows back at least, because all the action was happening behind me. It was a bummer to sit, but definitely not worth a fight! I lost my spot to a younger woman at a festival, and when she became aggressive and threatening, my girlfriend and I were just kind of like, "not worth it."

Edited by NonPopulus

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It sounds like Calgary had an "Army Of Lions" in the crowd.  Sadly the Lions all were tired and wanted to sit.    

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Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the concert etiquette discussion. It's been cathartic reading, as it addresses some big pet peeves of mine.

 

When it comes to the sitting vs. standing debate, I'm sympathetic to both sides of the argument. At any other public event -- sports games, theatre productions, whatever -- I believe constant standing is rude and unacceptable. But in the case of a rock concert, I'll always defer to the people standing, even if they're in the numerical minority. Simply by virtue of displaying more energy and noise and movement, they're contributing to the show's atmosphere, which is important at a loud, high-energy event. I believe a yin-yang relationship exists between musicians and fans, at least when a lively crowd is reciprocating the energy an artist is putting forth. It goes beyond being a spectator. It's about being an active participant in something potentially special. And live music shows always hold that potential; it's a sacred experience as far as I'm concerned. At least when someone like Matt's playing.

 

Using the Vogue in Vancouver as an example, this issue could be rectified by making the show General Admission and removing seats from the floor (as in the majority of Vogue shows). This would allow people who want to stand, to congregate by the stage and people who want sit to occupy the seats at the back, sides and balcony. Dan Mangan did this for his shows, and his concerts don't rock-out quite as much as Matt's. The problem with GA shows is they prevent an artist from offering tiered pricing, as Matt has done the last several tours, including the front rows offered in the VIP packages.

 

I think the desire to sit down can be attributed to an aging fan base. During the popularity boom of MGB in the 90's, I think the people attending shows were predominantly 15-25, so you know they weren't going to sit.

 

As far as the desire to talk during a concert?? I have absolutely no idea. I find the trend unfathomable, and frankly a little scary. If people don't have the attention span to stand and watch a brilliant artist plying his craft, what WILL they stand and watch?! People are already so hung up on their smart phones I guess it's too much to expect them to shut off the rest of the world and just immerse themselves in the music.

 

A few years ago I went down to see Matt on an acoustic tour that started in Seattle. We went to the Seattle and the Portland show, as well as the Vancouver Secret Show that kicked it off. In Van everyone was clearly diehard fans. They would have conversations with Matt in between songs, But everyone just focused when music was being played, it was fantastic. Then in Seattle at the Tractor Tavern, it seemed as though 80% of the crowd came out just to sit at the bar and talk. A small group crowded around the stage, But the socialites in the back by the bar didn't shut up the whole night. Their were times the ruckus was drowning out Matt as he just had the acoustic guitar and his voice.

I went down as well, and was late for the show due to that place's unusual location. Let's say it's not exactly on Seattle Tourism's most-visited list. So anyway, I walk in late, but was surprised and happy to see just about everyone standing around talking. I thought to myself, 'Cool.....Matt's not on yet, I didn't miss anything!' But of course he WAS on, and only a small minority was watching without talking. You're not exaggerating that 80% figure, it was at least that much. Sure, they paid their money, so I guess they had the right to talk, but why the hell would you?! They paid $15-20 for the ticket, so why not get your money's worth? And as hard as I try, I can never completely block out the talkers and only listen to the music. Maybe next tour Matt could let VIPers plug into the soundboard and listen on their headphones so we won't have to hear the yapping idiots!

 

The acoustic show at the Rio a year ago restored some of my faith though. You could hear a pin drop during most of that show, except when a chick flipped out on her boyfriend for spilling beer on her -- and who could blame her?!

 

Sorry for the novel-length post.....I won't be hurt if you passed it over.......brevity ain't my specialty!

Edited by GWS

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I am looking forward to it. You always do a great job.

 

 

That's awesome Gursky, I always look forward to the Edmonton shows because of your recordings.  Always a great mix balance and clarity and always of the whole show! Much appreciated, hope you can figure out those hardware issues, isn't it a pain when simple processes don't work quite so simply? 

 

 

Ooohhh niiice, thanks Gursky, hope it turns out for you! I have to set up a rig for the acoustic today. Hope I can get close enough to record and do a bit of video. 

 

Technical issues for the November 20 show have been sorted out but I think my recording device has done it's last show.  The device is nearly a decade old, and it's probably time to upgrade as it's getting harder to pass as a guy carrying something the size of a CD player when I have a smartphone in my pocket.  

 

The concert will be posted in the Lounge but you can listen to an Army of Lions sample here (on SoundCloud).

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Wow thats pretty good Gursky! Thanks for the sample. yea, I am ooking into using my phone for recording as well. I did a few shows using garageband. It didnt turn out as nice. Need to look into microphones and proper gear.

Edited by Konez

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This is quite an interesting discussion. The topic itself is fine, but what I find amazing is that so many of us were so close together. NonPopulus and his friend were 3 rows ahead of me and Mr. Chips was sitting directly beside me. I totally understand the problem... it was a bit of a perfect storm in that there was a group of people who didn't technically want to stand (they couldn't see) in front of a guy who *really* didn't want them to stand. I stood for a moment, but then realized the people weren't standing behind me, so I sat back down as my desire to stand is less than my desire to not obstruct a view. 

 

To be fair, Mr. Chips seemed like a legitimately nice, fun guy. However (and I say this respectfully), his response was quite obnoxious. In my mind it made things a lot worse because those he was yelling at just dug their heels in a little deeper. I didn't clap when NonPopulus' buddy sat down, but admittedly I was relieved because the exchanges were very high on my list of awkward show-ruining experiences. I do hope the lady who eventually spoke up did so in a respectful manner, and it's a shame your buddy was bummed. 

 

If anybody has masochistic tendencies, I have ever cringe-inducing moment saved to an mp3 on my phone. 

 

That all being said, what a setlist. Matt seemed very engaged and I have to say I love how hard he embraces his inner Gord Downie when he doesn't have a guitar. It adds an element of fun and intensity to the show. It's a real shame the mic cut out during Girls in Black as the build up was about as perfect as it gets, but that's part of the ride I suppose. 

Edited by russic

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GWS, 

agreed on your post, it is just bizarre to me that an attention span can be that short changed, but it is the reality.  There was a point in time when going to a concert was the ultimate tune out the world because this is exactly where I want to be moment.  It has become to many a moment that needs instant sharing and social media updates during the event.  Glad you could back me up on that Seattle show, it was absolutely brutal, and yeah, that venue was kind of in the sticks.  Took me some time to find it too.  Definitely had a "we're not at a Matt Good concert in Canada anymore" feel.  That show at the Rio is a good example of a crowd that was obviously there for the music.  They were engaged and focused on what was going on on stage and those shows always feel special to me, because you really feel like part of a small community of diehard people who care as much about the artist as you do.  Nobody there was trying to act like "The biggest MG fan EVA!" and nobody was trying to act too cool and aloof, they were just unashamedly yet non obnoxiously  into the music.  

Marcella, yes I was talking about the Media Club show from 2012 earlier.  Of the 25 Matt Good shows I've seen, it stands way out in front as my favourite show I've been to.  A huge part of that of course was Matt being in just a jubilant relaxed mood and clearly enjoying himself, and the great setlist and length of the show.  But another major factor was just the crowd.  There was great in between songs banter and I never heard a single "shut up and play" entitled comment.  When the music played though, everyone was just focused.  Seriously look those videos up on youtube, the kids in the front row look like they're in a trance, and that's kind of how I'd describe the show and my feelings about it, somewhat transcendent.  I just wish someone had recorded it!  When Matt played Running for Home acoustically and started stumbling on the words at the end, the crowd was so on the ball that we immediately took over and finished the song for him.  Think about that for a second, a crowd silently listening, But so involved that the second Matt stumbled nearly the entire crowd picked up and sang the rest of a song that wasn't a top 40 hit.  That'll make the hairs on your arms stand up.  

Anyways got a bit off topic there, But it's too bad a few incidents of people in the crowd are overshadowing some great shows.  I'm really loving the recordings some of you have made, because I think I prefer the majority of Choatic's songs in their current live form in comparison to the album version.  

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Fortunately where my wife & I were seated for the Calgary show (about 4 rows back, right side) the crowd was great. In our section we were sitting, but for me it was because the rows in front of me were seated. I don't want to be the guy that's the first to stand up and block people's view :) I'm fine with that. But by the encore a bunch of people from further back left their seats and got up right by the stage so we were standing then. And I think a casino venue draws out a certain crowd too...not just long time Matt Good fans but also the "hey lets go to the casino and play slots and that Dave Matthews Timebomb guy is playing too" crowd.

 

One of my favourite shows so far has been one of the Jack Singer concerts....just because the acoustics are soooo good there. It was great just to see and hear the band's performance.

 

Speaking of this performance - my wife is more of a "casual" Matt Good fan but she thought this was one of his more intense performances. She thought he was "really strung out" and "on something" but I told her I don't think Matt's the type of guy who's "on" anything lol. Just a lot of emotion in his songs which sometimes come from some pretty dark places. I think it was the Girls in Black performance that did it for her...the crouching in the stage and then whatever else happened near the end of the song (couldn't really see Matt at the end of the song because of the crowd in front)

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Guest girl

To be fair, Mr. Chips seemed like a legitimately nice, fun guy. However (and I say this respectfully), his response was quite obnoxious. In my mind it made things a lot worse because those he was yelling at just dug their heels in a little deeper. I didn't clap when NonPopulus' buddy sat down, but admittedly I was relieved because the exchanges were very high on my list of awkward show-ruining experiences. I do hope the lady who eventually spoke up did so in a respectful manner, and it's a shame your buddy was bummed. 

 

If anybody has masochistic tendencies, I have ever cringe-inducing moment saved to an mp3 on my phone. 

 

I've never really witnessed obnoxious behavior first hand at Matt's concert, other than people talking too much. I did however witness a full on fist fight between two guys in the front row of a Tragically Hip concert. It was an outdoor Stampede festival from a few years ago. Gord was totally making fun of them. You can hear his rant in the Lounge, if it's still there.

 

I wouldn't mind hearing his obnoxious response. I want to hear what bad, cringe-worthy behavior sounds like. I don't like how that incident distracted me from enjoying Matt's music. Don't do it again, okay?

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