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Guest Idioteque

New Album 2017

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Guest Idioteque

The Roger Waters tour is for a new album, so maybe people's interest isn't there. I can see The Wall selling out no problem, don't see Canadians caring to see Anti-Trump crap for 2.5 hours. Box office for those shows go into the millions, so an empty upper bowl isn't hurting his wallet.

i knew what you meant with the Vancouver statement, nobody should feel forced to leave their homes it sucks. I grew up on the Island, it's gorgeous & I see myself moving there again. There isn't a SINGLE concert you'd sell your liver for? Led Zeppelin reunion? Oasis getting back together? Live a little!  

I'm willing to pay a disgusting amount of money to see my favorite concerts, doesn't mean I have the money though haha. The main shows I've went to over the years only cost like $15 at the Biltmore or 333, being a metalhead it's always common to see small bands that traveled from Nederlands or Australia. Just flipping through my IG for small indie bands I've seen live years ago that are still currently killing it across the world: The Ocean Collective (Germany), O'Brother (USA), The Dear Hunter (USA), TTNG (UK), Toe (Japan). Just vans full of people playing music & traveling the world, no awards, no platinum/gold records, no big budget label or backing, DIY all the way. +10 year careers on most of them & still going. 

I'll message you about my friend because name dropping is silly, but seeing their name on the same bill as bands like Black Sabbath & Metallica, and their NOT making alot of money? It's dumbfounding. To play sold out shows & go straight back to a 9-5, rough. That's economics & life folks.

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The Roger Waters tour is for a new album, so maybe people's interest isn't there. I can see The Wall selling out no problem, don't see Canadians caring to see Anti-Trump crap for 2.5 hours. Box office for those shows go into the millions, so an empty upper bowl isn't hurting his wallet.

 

i knew what you meant with the Vancouver statement, nobody should feel forced to leave their homes it sucks. I grew up on the Island, it's gorgeous & I see myself moving there again. There isn't a SINGLE concert you'd sell your liver for? Led Zeppelin reunion? Oasis getting back together? Live a little!  

 

I'm willing to pay a disgusting amount of money to see my favorite concerts, doesn't mean I have the money though haha. The main shows I've went to over the years only cost like $15 at the Biltmore or 333, being a metalhead it's always common to see small bands that traveled from Nederlands or Australia. Just flipping through my IG for small indie bands I've seen live years ago that are still currently killing it across the world: The Ocean Collective (Germany), O'Brother (USA), The Dear Hunter (USA), TTNG (UK), Toe (Japan). Just vans full of people playing music & traveling the world, no awards, no platinum/gold records, no big budget label or backing, DIY all the way. +10 year careers on most of them & still going. 

 

I'll message you about my friend because name dropping is silly, but seeing their name on the same bill as bands like Black Sabbath & Metallica, and their NOT making alot of money? It's dumbfounding. To play sold out shows & go straight back to a 9-5, rough. That's economics & life folks.

 

This might be a discussion for the economics post on here, but this isn't an uncommon problem for musicians these days.

 

One of my favorite bands, The Reason, is on an indefinite hiatus because they had one disastrous tour where a bunch of stuff went wrong, cumulating in their van being totalled.  The lead singer, Adam, has been a bartender at a place in Hamilton for years now, just making money to support his dream of being a successful musician.

 

A friend of mine was the drummer in Baptized in Blood, a fairly popular metal band for many years.  He had two jobs all while being in the band to support his family and himself, just to make money.  These guys played some big shows across the world.  

 

 

 

I'm happy to pay what we're paying now to see Matt in this incarnation.  I would pay more to hear an acoustic show, or whatever other options there might be.  I'm probably not in the majority here though.  The casual fan isn't going to pay $100 to see Matt play when all they know are the radio hits.  Most people are only going to pay $40 to $60 to see a show.  I would have paid the $100 or whatever to see the winery show if it had been close to here.  The problem is us die hard fans aren't going to fill the venue every night on a tour at a higher price.  

 

Bringing it back on topic, I rewatched the live stream and really enjoyed the live performances that I skipped over last time.  The shows on this tour will be really good.

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Well it starts off strong, and it feels like it's going to go somewhere, but then the chorus comes in which i don't like, and then nothing really happens and the song ends. The song is a tease because it starts of so well but is ultimately very flat.

 

It's funny because i actually really like the album except for this one song.

 

I was with you at first as well...this song did nothing for me upon first listen.  But the droning, monotonous nature of the progression works effectively well when paired with the lyrics.  It's actually become one of my favorites now.

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Well it starts off strong, and it feels like it's going to go somewhere, but then the chorus comes in which i don't like, and then nothing really happens and the song ends. The song is a tease because it starts of so well but is ultimately very flat.

 

It's funny because i actually really like the album except for this one song.

 

Aight. Just kinda surprised because it was one of the songs that I had an immediate positive reaction to upon first listen.

 

Earlier I was talking about album rankings. I don't think it's fair to hold up every new album to the classics. I just think overall there's something missing with SLAS. I think someone mentioned earlier they were waiting for a peak moment that didn't seem to come. I've still enjoyed it though.

 

Also in general with Matt's albums I've gotten the concept every time up until the last two albums. Chaotic Neutral had a lot of very good songs on it, including one of my favorites ever by Matt (Cold Water), but the album doesn't seem to flow as well as Arrows or Lights or Hospital Music, etc. You can argue that that's the concept of CN lol, but I'm not sure. In the same way I'm having trouble getting the concept of SLAS as a whole. On the 3 albums I mentioned specifically each song sounds like a natural progression of the song before it and on CN and SLAS I don't get that feeling.

Edited by Gomo
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SLAS is kind of underwhelming IMO. It's all to familiar to me, too quick. Which isn't to say it's a bad record, just that nothing really surprised me in it. Maybe that's my own setback because I've been a fan for so long and I know what to expect and when to expect it, but that's just how I feel listening to it. As a whole it's really cohesive, and does seem to flow well. But there's something that's not really having me gravitate to it. Song structure seems too basic or something. Very adult contemporary, which I don't think I'm ready to accept.

 

Bad Guys Win is strange enough one of the high points for me. It has really grown on me.

 

Bullets in a briefcase is a song that everyone seems to put on a pedastol right now except me. Maybe I'll come around to it. I do enjoy it, but again, I'm not finding it as captivating as everyone else.

 

Something Like A Storm is my favourite song at the moment. I echo the same sentiments as someone else already said, it is a very simple song. The strings seem out of place for some reason, but the rest of the instrumentation just takes the cake IMO. It's such a heavy song and it reminds me of the old days, which I'm starting to realize I really prefer.

 

She's Got You Where She Wants you - really cool song. I love the verses. The whole thing reminds me of Don Henley's End Of Innocence for some reason.

 

Anyways, I'll stop there. I don't want to come off too disparaging, because it really isn't my intent. Those are the standouts for me and the points that I could remember I wanted to make.

 

Can I add that I love the drums? It's such a departure from the norm that was the Vancouver-esque patterns. I really think having the band being so close knit right now helps open things up a bit more.

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I had my snickers, it's all good Girl haha. I really wouldn't call it complaining, just hypothetical discussions about potential future concert ideas that's all, out of love & curiosity. Matt & Warne contain more knowledge about the industry than I'll ever know, throw a rock & you'll hit somebody with more knowledge than me. I'm strictly going off what I've experienced from other musicians & the community when I was a angst teen roaming Van. 

 

Ah I probably won't aim for VIP regardless because if it's something I don't like then it's more "complaining" but if it is something I like then that means I gotta leave my house. I don't really go to concerts anymore, I couldn't even tell you the last show I've been to, maybe TOOL? Idk, got burnt out. 

 

you're too friggin' nice, tony! I for sure thought you were going to lash back at me. sorry about that; I was in a bad mood yesterday. every little thing was annoying me.

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This is a random question:

 

In the 80's, when fadeouts were standard practice on albums, what did artists do live in concert?  

 

I'm a little young, as my first concert was in the 90's, but were they abruptly ending, or was the engineer dropping the levels at the end of every song?

 

It occurred to me last night as I was driving and listening to the new record.  What is Matt going to do on this tour?

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This is a random question:

 

In the 80's, when fadeouts were standard practice on albums, what did artists do live in concert?  

 

I'm a little young, as my first concert was in the 90's, but were they abruptly ending, or was the engineer dropping the levels at the end of every song?

 

It occurred to me last night as I was driving and listening to the new record.  What is Matt going to do on this tour?

 

Always an alternate way to end a song there.  Live concerts in the 80's (at least for major Pop artists) were a spectacle unto themselves and often feature unique and clever ways to segue from one track to another.

 

That being said, I think when Matt refers to 'fadeouts' and the 80's he's more speaking to New Wave and Pop artists.  Metallica and Black Flag sure as hell weren't fading out songs...but that might say more about the 'looseness' of a rock recording vs. recording with a drum machine.

 

Either way, I am sure Matt and Co. will figure it all out just fine.

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Guest Idioteque

I agree Marcy, sometimes listening to music alone can feel 100000x better than going to a concert. Nobody should ever think they will make money doing what they love, they should do what they love because the feeling it gives them is priceless enough. There's worse odds like making it in the NBA, or becoming the next President than creating a following for your art, even if you may not be able to live off your work you're still accomplishing what you're meant to do in life (if you believe in fate). I think that's why some of the best musicians today are humble, they know the odds of making it is so small that they don't take it for granted. Unless you're Liam Gallagher & think you're the reincarnation of Jesus. 

Hoogie, normally bands live play 4 bars & end at the same time or extend it into a jam or use it to transition into the next song. To give an example, Hotel California's studio track fades out but live it has a proper ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT59rohv6jw

Fade outs don't bother me because it's been in all the music from my childhood, but it's interesting to google the topic and see such a 50/50 split on the people who think it's important & people who hate it within music forums. 

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I agree Marcy, sometimes listening to music alone can feel 100000x better than going to a concert. Nobody should ever think they will make money doing what they love, they should do what they love because the feeling it gives them is priceless enough. There's worse odds like making it in the NBA, or becoming the next President than creating a following for your art, even if you may not be able to live off your work you're still accomplishing what you're meant to do in life (if you believe in fate). I think that's why some of the best musicians today are humble, they know the odds of making it is so small that they don't take it for granted. Unless you're Liam Gallagher & think you're the reincarnation of Jesus. 

 

Hoogie, normally bands live play 4 bars & end at the same time or extend it into a jam or use it to transition into the next song. To give an example, Hotel California's studio track fades out but live it has a proper ending.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT59rohv6jw

 

Fade outs don't bother me because it's been in all the music from my childhood, but it's interesting to google the topic and see such a 50/50 split on the people who think it's important & people who hate it within music forums. 

 

I'm not sure that I agree with that, but it might be more of a philosophical discussion than anything else.

 

Without getting too political I will just say this:  if you write a book; if you make an album; if you paint a picture...anything that you have done that you feel is worth sharing has an intrinsic value to it.  That's not to say you should expect to get rich, but expecting fair compensation for something you have done is a core tenet of any society...I feel that if you say your art is free, then you are essentially saying it is worthless.  I happily will pay for what I feel is worth paying for.  An artist should expect compensation for something they have created...especially if they stand behind it.

 

To that point, I feel like the 'enjoyment' of something being payment enough for doing it is what separates a 'hobby' from a 'profession'.  There is a distinction there; one is not necessarily better than another, but I don't fault someone who has chosen art as a profession for expecting compensation.  Whether or not they deserve or receive said compensation is a matter of capitalism, but the expectation is sound (in my opinion) nonetheless.

 

Ok...enough side-tracking from me...:)

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I agree Marcy, sometimes listening to music alone can feel 100000x better than going to a concert. Nobody should ever think they will make money doing what they love, they should do what they love because the feeling it gives them is priceless enough. There's worse odds like making it in the NBA, or becoming the next President than creating a following for your art, even if you may not be able to live off your work you're still accomplishing what you're meant to do in life (if you believe in fate). I think that's why some of the best musicians today are humble, they know the odds of making it is so small that they don't take it for granted. Unless you're Liam Gallagher & think you're the reincarnation of Jesus. 

 

Hoogie, normally bands live play 4 bars & end at the same time or extend it into a jam or use it to transition into the next song. To give an example, Hotel California's studio track fades out but live it has a proper ending.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT59rohv6jw

 

Fade outs don't bother me because it's been in all the music from my childhood, but it's interesting to google the topic and see such a 50/50 split on the people who think it's important & people who hate it within music forums. 

 

Well, there's fantasy and reality. You could just do what you love for free, because you love it but when it serves someone else then you need to get paid for it. Because that's the way the world works whether you're an artist, a Web designer, an electrician or whatever. Because you have bills to pay, children to feed,

 

The way people think about arts in general as being just something artists love doing and therefore shouldn't expect to be paid for it is not only ridiculous but insulting. I don't know if that's what you're saying but if it is I highly disagree. Like anything you can do it for free if you want but again if it serves anyone (promoters, venues, radio DJs, etc. etc. etc.) then you should get paid for it, period.

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Some good points there and no worries, you are not coming across as anything other than a passionate person...which I respect.  

 

But, with that being said, I think we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.  Plenty of artists that I love have made music with fame/money/women as the primary motivation and I LOVE their music.  Does not necessarily mean anyone has 'lost the plot'...it is simply a classic case of 'to each his own'.

 

As a lifelong musician, writer and artist, I can honestly say that while my definition of success has certainly changed over the years, so has my motivations....but the simple act of writing and recording is the only thread that connects my present to my past...I like that a lot.

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Guest Idioteque

Of course there's people who do it for the money, even then I ain't hating because we all need to survive. If this was 1978 I'd probably be nose deep in sex drugs, rock & roll haha. The "plot" in my eyes is doing what you love in the end, that's all. We are all hustling at the end of the day. 

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Of course there's people who do it for the money, even then I ain't hating because we all need to survive. If this was 1978 I'd probably be nose deep in sex drugs, rock & roll haha. The "plot" in my eyes is doing what you love in the end, that's all. We are all hustling at the end of the day.

This is well said. Couldn’t agree more.

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Something that is relevant to what we've been talking about & has always impressed me about Matt's career, is everything he did before MGB. He first learned to play guitar at 20 (I imagine probably started singing too at the same time). Then by the time he released ...And In Closing the same year he already found his voice & hands.
Then proceeds to release a cassette every year & win Fox Seeds in 94. All brand new songs too, it's not these would be released to tease a full length release. 

How?.. That's so freaking impressive considering the bios I know of other famous musicians who needed more years to find themselves. That type of hustle is inspiring. 

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I wanted to write a thing but i don't even know what to say. it sounds like you're disappointed that people can't live in a prosperous society and just do a thing they love for no other reason than that they love it. i'm not criticizing you, to be honest that sounds nice. but this is not reality. i can't re-assure you, or console you. the world just exists in 1 way and there are at least 7 billion people wishing it existed in slightly or very different ways.

 

look, i'm a nihilist so i understand the feeling of pointlessnes. all i can say is that i just do the things that make me happy and put up with doing some things i don't want to do because the good things make the shitty things worth it in the end.

 

(edited: i removed a part that didn't make any sense whatsoever)

Edited by IamNick
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Just to be clear I wasn't talking about motivation at all. Maybe I misunderstood your point. I was talking in terms of fairness, about how the arts are viewed as trivial, unimportant and many times diminished to being a hobby and therefore should be done for free.

 

What we do in life is often motivated by something greater than just interest. For example, when you're an artist, it's well engraved in your DNA. It is you. So that's your 'motivation' so to speak, even if that term isn't really applicable as it's like talking about your motivation for breathing. So when you're an artist, you do your art, whether you get paid or not. In that respect, you shouldn't expect to get paid indeed. I'm also a Web developer and if I make a website at home I can't expect to magically get money for it. But if a client wants that website, he's going to pay for it. If you're a carpenter you can build houses in your backyard, you won't get paid for it. And so on.

 

That's what I was talking about when I was referring to 'if it serves someone else'. If you're recording music for yourself and you're sharing them online, you might not get paid. But that's alright as you're not doing it for money.

 

Going into an artistic carreer FOR the money is not a good motivation indeed.

 

What I was talking about though, is how the artist, the raw material for the artist 'product', is often the one that has to make all the financial sacrifices. I can't speak for other provinces, but in Quebec, an author is last in the book chain getting only 10% of the sale price of a book. Without the author, there is no book. But the editor gets 30%, the distributor gets 20%, the bookseller gets 40% (!!!). Yet the book serves the editor, the distributor and the bookseller. Why is the author getting a roll of pennies?

 

That's the mindset I was talking about before. The artist gets screwed everytime and everyone else around is making money. Even if that can't be your motivation for making art (and, by experience, when you force it, it sucks anyway) it's unfair that not only this kind of system exists but that it is defended by many given how art is seen as a hobby, not a proper field of work. Yet remove art from the world and none of these people have jobs. No businesses profit from a peak of visitor during the Montreal Jazz Festival or a special art exposition. There are no more librairies, museums, television, Netflix, iTunes, sound egineers, stage dressers and so on. That is and will always be unacceptable.

 

So maybe we weren't talking about the same thing. If that's the case I hope that clears up my position :)

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Just to be clear I wasn't talking about motivation at all. Maybe I misunderstood your point. I was talking in terms of fairness, about how the arts are viewed as trivial, unimportant and many times diminished to being a hobby and therefore should be done for free.

 

What we do in life is often motivated by something greater than just interest. For example, when you're an artist, it's well engraved in your DNA. It is you. So that's your 'motivation' so to speak, even if that term isn't really applicable as it's like talking about your motivation for breathing. So when you're an artist, you do your art, whether you get paid or not. In that respect, you shouldn't expect to get paid indeed. I'm also a Web developer and if I make a website at home I can't expect to magically get money for it. But if a client wants that website, he's going to pay for it. If you're a carpenter you can build houses in your backyard, you won't get paid for it. And so on.

 

That's what I was talking about when I was referring to 'if it serves someone else'. If you're recording music for yourself and you're sharing them online, you might not get paid. But that's alright as you're not doing it for money.

 

Going into an artistic carreer FOR the money is not a good motivation indeed.

 

What I was talking about though, is how the artist, the raw material for the artist 'product', is often the one that has to make all the financial sacrifices. I can't speak for other provinces, but in Quebec, an author is last in the book chain getting only 10% of the sale price of a book. Without the author, there is no book. But the editor gets 30%, the distributor gets 20%, the bookseller gets 40% (!!!). Yet the book serves the editor, the distributor and the bookseller. Why is the author getting a roll of pennies?

 

That's the mindset I was talking about before. The artist gets screwed everytime and everyone else around is making money. Even if that can't be your motivation for making art (and, by experience, when you force it, it sucks anyway) it's unfair that not only this kind of system exists but that it is defended by many given how art is seen as a hobby, not a proper field of work. Yet remove art from the world and none of these people have jobs. No businesses profit from a peak of visitor during the Montreal Jazz Festival or a special art exposition. There are no more librairies, museums, television, Netflix, iTunes, sound egineers, stage dressers and so on. That is and will always be unacceptable.

 

So maybe we weren't talking about the same thing. If that's the case I hope that clears up my position :)

 

Just to add a different perspective on this:

 

I run a music store where 55 musicians all make a very good living teaching and such.  Almost every single one plays out professionally and teaches to help subsidize their income.  Most are doing very well for themselves.  Going into music 'for the money' is a very do-able thing, provided you stick with it and see it through. 

 

If your goal is to play to stadiums full of people, then of course it's a 'one in a million' thing.  No different then if your goal as an IT person is to be Bill Gates right hand man.  But if your goal is to 'make a living' and provide for your family, being a musician is just as a viable route as any.  I say this is as someone who is doing it and who is surrounded by people doing it.

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Just to add a different perspective on this:

 

I run a music store where 55 musicians all make a very good living teaching and such.  Almost every single one plays out professionally and teaches to help subsidize their income.  Most are doing very well for themselves.  Going into music 'for the money' is a very do-able thing, provided you stick with it and see it through. 

 

If your goal is to play to stadiums full of people, then of course it's a 'one in a million' thing.  No different then if your goal as an IT person is to be Bill Gates right hand man.  But if your goal is to 'make a living' and provide for your family, being a musician is just as a viable route as any.  I say this is as someone who is doing it and who is surrounded by people doing it.

 

Oh of course it's doable. I'm talking about getting into it for that, you know the "I'm going to become a rock star to make a crap ton of money". That can't be your motivation because your chances of success are slim to none especially in this day and age. But there nothing wrong with wanting to make money from your art though. Plus even those who stick to it and work very hard, no matter the field of expertise, the vast majority will not get to the top through no fault of their own.

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Guest Idioteque

The best example of seeing how passionate a person can be about a subject & not care about anything else is Twitch.

 

I always see certain streamers who never achieved more than 5-20 viewers a stream & even that to them feels like a stadium of 50,000.

 

Some gamers can become massive online personalities, some gamers get enough endorphin from just being able to play infront of people.

 

It's fascinating, because 10 years ago it was rare to gain a following playing video games, 20 years ago it was unheard of. So as hard as it was to become a paid musician before, now I'm seeing alot more music theory or cover song youtube channels that are blowing up.

 

Hell, half of the top billboard 100 songs are artists that got popular off soundcloud. The Internet can be a scary place but also a hopeful one.

 

Btw is there a way to change the thread title to "Something Like A Storm 2017"?

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Guest Idioteque

Bless press junkets, I can imagine they are absolute bores but they are entertaining.

 

"There The First Time" is my new favorite track off the new album, sounds amazing live.

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That being said, I think when Matt refers to 'fadeouts' and the 80's he's more speaking to New Wave and Pop artists.  Metallica and Black Flag sure as hell weren't fading out songs...but that might say more about the 'looseness' of a rock recording vs. recording with a drum machine.

 

Metallica, even in the 80's, used lots of fadeouts.  For Whom The Bell Tolls, Fade To Black, Escape, Orion, Jump In The Fire etc.

 

I like the fadeouts on the new MG album, gives it a throwback feel. Wish the album came on cassette LOL.

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