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crthiel

Anyone know why the Matt Good subreddit went private?

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His response:

 

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I do find it interesting his first statement is about being dropped from the label and not about the victims. He also only mentioned one victim and not the others who have come forward. And again he uses his mental health as a crutch.
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3 minutes ago, crthiel said:

His response:

 

g9sgv28hcyg61.jpg
 
I do find it interesting his first statement is about being dropped from the label and not about the victims. He also only mentioned one victim and not the others who have come forward. And again he uses his mental health as a crutch.

Maybe that's because his view is that there are no victims. 

 

You realize that mental illness results in some unpretty things, right? It's not all hashtags and TED talks.

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It's been a long time since I posted here or thought much about MG at all.  This whole thing just caught my attention this evening.

 

Once upon a time (15+ years ago), I spoke with a sister of a former beau of Matt's.  (The name Rosemary might ring a bell for a few die-hard fans out there.).  What I was told that day shocked me and I pretended I didn't hear it for a very long time.  It was uncomfortable, to say the least.

 

I'm not going to tell someone else's story, but when I read these allegations, I thought of that conversation.  I realized that I'm not surprised.  It all lines up with what I was told about a relationship that ended 30 years ago.  It sounds like some things never changed.

 

I am sad but not surprised.  I am very disappointed.

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35 minutes ago, Russell said:

It's been a long time since I posted here or thought much about MG at all.  This whole thing just caught my attention this evening.

 

Once upon a time (15+ years ago), I spoke with a sister of a former beau of Matt's.  (The name Rosemary might ring a bell for a few die-hard fans out there.).  What I was told that day shocked me and I pretended I didn't hear it for a very long time.  It was uncomfortable, to say the least.

 

I'm not going to tell someone else's story, but when I read these allegations, I thought of that conversation.  I realized that I'm not surprised.  It all lines up with what I was told about a relationship that ended 30 years ago.  It sounds like some things never changed.

 

I am sad but not surprised.  I am very disappointed.

This is so weird because I'm having a parallel thing. I remember Rosemary being mentioned way back when.  I've been around quasi lurking all these forums for years. If you've been to a show from Toronto to Niagara in the last two decades you've seen me. I was in the facebook group, posted on the sub reddit. Matt's been a big part of my life since underdogs. I used to kinda of know Rich and Pat back in those days. I met Matt through them (and one time the Tea Party) and it was always cordial but I didn't know the man. But like I was deep in the fandom and there were tons of stories shared on ancient message boards I've long since forgotten the names of that were really pretty awful. And since I was a huge fan people loved telling me stories of a friend of a friend. It's too many corroborations and similar patterns. It all does make sense. It's a huge bummer. I've been kind of unfollowing and getting rid of him on playlists. I have a stack of vinyl i payed a lot of money for I don't know what I want to do with. His music didn't just speak to me it spoke for me in a lot of ways. It's so dissapointing. Either way if any of you are old fans from back when and want to chat i draw crap on instagram @mt_ouellette if you need to commiserate with a fellow diehard or even if we've met and you just wanna say hi. Oh and thanks for still having this site all these years it was a great resource.

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I woke up to all this today without having seen any of it before, so my apologies for my ignorance in all of this.

 

I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to tell me where to find the allegations brought by the dozen or so women who have come forward? I saw the post and the email released by Hayley Mather this morning before she made her Instagram private, but that was it in terms of context (or lack thereof). Everything else I've seen has been people mentioning accusations but declining to repeat them because its not their story, and I'd really like to get the full picture of what exactly has been said.

 

Chiming in on a discussion a couple of pages back about separating the art from the artist and all of that, I think it's something that's particularly difficult with an artist like Matthew Good. In my experience it's rare that an artist will present such a visceral and raw view of themselves through their art and, when you start to see bits of yourself in that, it's incredibly difficult not to attach yourself emotionally to it, particularly when you see other people opening up in having the same reactions - you start to realise that you're not alone in the vulnerabilities that you'd prefer not to show to the world.

 

I will admit that my knee-jerk reaction was one of skepticism. Again, I didn't have time to get the full view of things, but it almost seemed to me like the accusations were put up, and then followed with the release of the email from him leading people to conflate the two so as to seem like the admissions of being a shitty person were a direct admission to having abused her and saying that his art justifies it. I, personally, did not see the context of that email, so I'm hesitant to read too much into its context. That being said, I'm starkly aware of my bias in that I've identified so much with Matthew Good's art over the past 15 years and it's difficult to reconcile that part of me with the possibility of it being made by someone who is capable of some potentially horrific behaviour. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance to work through there.

 

So yeah, any further information that could be given or signposted to would be massively appreciated. I hope everyone's doing alright, I'm sure there are a lot of people really shaken by all of this.

 

 

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I do have to call into question the validity of the allegations now that the original posts containing the allegations have been set to private. The articles on Global and Exclaim linked to the Instagram posts are broken which distorts the news articles - readers will not see the full picture of what is being alleged, which I don’t think is right. Warner Music Canada’s and Matt’s statements are public, but the allegations are private. This really seems like revenge using social media, the media, and court of public opinion.

 

If the allegations are true, in a courtroom is where this should be done, under oath where all sides have the opportunity to speak, and the truth will prevail. The allegations are serious, and should be treated as such.

Edited by Chris85
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I’m taking the same approach to this as any artist who isn’t pure as the winter snow, I‘ll keep enjoying the art for arts sake, including live performances.

 

for those who can’t and want to get rid of your rare underdogs-avalanche era merch, hit me up before you burn it

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4 hours ago, Chris85 said:

I do have to call into question the validity of the allegations now that the original posts containing the allegations have been set to private. The articles on Global and Exclaim linked to the Instagram posts are broken which distorts the news articles - readers will not see the full picture of what is being alleged, which I don’t think is right. Warner Music Canada’s and Matt’s statements are public, but the allegations are private. This really seems like revenge using social media, the media, and court of public opinion.

 

If the allegations are true, in a courtroom is where this should be done, under oath where all sides have the opportunity to speak, and the truth will prevail. The allegations are serious, and should be treated as such.

 

This is ridiculous, though I understand why people feel this way.

 

It absolutely 100% does not matter what any of us think in this matter, unless people really do think that he should tried in public. Warners and Bernie Breen found the allegations to be credible, and acted on their own. That's it. There wasn't public pressure for them to do anything.

 

 

Important fact: Bernie Breen has been MG's management since at least 2005. Does anyone here seriously think that a 16+ year relationship would be thrown away with a terse, two-sentence statement if they didn't think there was at least some credibility to the accusations?

 

 

As has been said multiple times here: you don't have to commit a crime to be fired from your job, or for a company to decide that they no longer want to work with you.

 

 

Edited by uglyredhonda
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44 minutes ago, finboy said:

 

Fair point - somebody else brought it up, and I blanked on how it ended. I was wrong. (The assertion made elsewhere was he was fired after the trial, which wasn't true - he was fired after CBC believed the allegations to be credible, and the allegations included office behavior that he wasn't tried for. He filed a wrongful termination lawsuit, but eventually withdrew it and paid CBC's legal fees.)

 

I'm removing that whole section from my post - the rest of it was the important part.

 

 

Edited by uglyredhonda
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Having read some more of the accusations, I see how mistreated these women feel. There is no excuse for such behaviour. I still wish there was a better way to deal with this, but obviously there has been conern for a long time and now the chickens have come home to roost. Maybe he'll get his shit together? But it seems like entrenched personality traits exacerbated by mental illness.

 

Always a shame when someone so creative is bereft of similar ingenuity in his personal life, and others pay for it in terrible ways. I feel sad for the ladies who thought they were getting to know a man who represented the best parts of himself in part through his art and activism.

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28 minutes ago, Idealich said:

I wasn’t sure if I wanted to make a reply here, but here it goes.

 

I’ve listened to MG since I was a kid, and have been a pretty hardcore fan for years. I love his music, and personally cannot imagine that I’ll ever stop listening to his songs. But all of that aside, I want to really take a step back and write about how I feel about this situation.

 

I feel strongly that after reading the number of allegations that have been made that there is a fairly high likelihood that MG has done some inappropriate/immature/harmful things in his personal life. I agree with others who said here that he seemed to have lived the life of a Rockstar, and undoubtedly trampled on the sentiments of fans whom he’d have liaisons with. None of these claims, at least at this point, have reached a threshold for criminality in Canada. The age of consent in Canada is 16, so if Matt was sleeping with women over this age, he’s within his rights to do so if the liaison is consensual. Flirting can often be interpreted in hindsight as manipulation, and while I’m sure some have regretted their encounters with him, again I don’t think that sexual flirtation is necessarily problematic. None of these accounts so far suggest that MG was engaged in any sort of blatant sexual harassment either- I would hope that if some of these women asked him to stop sending them sexual messages, he would have done so. Finally, if he did transmit an STI to someone unknowingly, then he wouldn’t be responsible for that. As far as I’m aware, there is only a problem if there is explicit proof that he knew unequivocally he had an STI (i.e., via a positive test) and withheld that information from a partner.

 

That being said, he very likely has engaged in some immature and harmful relational behaviour that is probably the reflection of growing up in the spotlight, and thereby not having the same opportunity for normative relational experiences as others, while at the same time also struggling with mental illness, which was untreated for the majority of his life. As a result, like Aziz Ansari, I wouldn’t be surprised if MG was stunted in terms of his capacity to develop healthy mutual relationships. Why do men cheat? Because they’re not mature enough to have made a relational commitment in the first place! I do find it interesting that he automatically defers to his mental illness as an excuse, which is obviously an immature reaction- he seems to see himself as a tragic figure that is tortured, that makes art to express his pain, and therefore his immaturity is justified by the suffering he experiences. He has been handily rewarded for one product of his suffering, so why could anyone possibly blame him for the other unintended consequences [read my heavy sarcasm]? He has probably imagined himself in light of the many historical images of the tortured artist, and thus sees those images as justification for his behaviours. Narcissistic and immature? Yes. Clearly someone who is a human struggling and in need of some sort of help? Absolutely.

 

This isn’t to minimize the pain of the women that he’s hurt, because I imagine that they all also have their own complex stories, their own trauma, their own immaturity, and their own need of help…and the impetus to share stories with others, to corroborate their experiences is very much an expression of needing help that should be encouraged. At the same time, the moment I heard this news, my first reaction was to purchase a bunch of his albums on CD that I was missing (I had digital copies or vinyl) out of concern that they wouldn’t be available again. Why? Because I’m afraid that the art will be punished alongside the artist, as it always is. MG as a person is inextricably linked to his work, and thus it will be punished alongside him…and perhaps he should be punished. Perhaps we ought to stop listening to him and curse his name as another man who used a position of privilege to harm those who idolized him. At the same time, perhaps we can step back from him, acknowledge that there was harm committed, and encourage him to seek help, to be better as a person, and that by working through some of that trauma that underlies his music, he could come back better able to speak to his fans with new music in a healthier way. And then, ultimately, he can decide what to do. Perhaps he’ll keep making music as if nothing has happened. Perhaps he’ll decide to hang up the guitar and retire in banishment, as Jian Ghomeshi before him. Ideally, I hope that he’ll seek help and come back while acknowledging the pain he’s caused and explain what led to that pain in a new album. He has the opportunity to be an example to others right now- by owning up to his errors, to seek the help to be better, and to use that energy to make even more meaningful art.

 

Whatever happens, I hope all parties involved get the help

 

Thanks for sharing. Right now it's just kind of cathartic to read the thoughts of others and commiserate to some degree.

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6 hours ago, uglyredhonda said:

 

This is ridiculous, though I understand why people feel this way.

 

It absolutely 100% does not matter what any of us think in this matter, unless people really do think that he should tried in public. Warners and Bernie Breen found the allegations to be credible, and acted on their own. That's it. There wasn't public pressure for them to do anything.

 

 

Important fact: Bernie Breen has been MG's management since at least 2005. Does anyone here seriously think that a 16+ year relationship would be thrown away with a terse, two-sentence statement if they didn't think there was at least some credibility to the accusations?

 

 

As has been said multiple times here: you don't have to commit a crime to be fired from your job, or for a company to decide that they no longer want to work with you.

 

 

Exactly this. Bernie Breen had been with him for the better part of two decades. He wouldn't walk unless there was some level credibility to the multiple as accusations.

 

I've read several of the accusations (there's a whole tumblr page as well) and none of it shocks me.  As has been said multiple times on this thread, he's not a great person. Nobody deserves trial by Twitter, however, MG's statement left a bad taste in my mouth -- it took how long to break your silence and to simply write that?

 

I've loved his music for most of his career -- the last couple of albums didn't do it for me. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I'll listen to his music any further after that but I definitely won't be financially supporting him with new purchases, concert-going or streaming. 
 

Again, as was mentioned by another member, I'm sad as well but not surprised.

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1 hour ago, Gomo said:

The statement was probably guided by a lawyer.

As were the actions of WMC and Breen dropping him. They have reputations to protect, after all, and anyone that hasn't been under a rock for the last 5 years knows that being associated with anyone accused -- however baseless it may be -- of impropriety against a woman, is instant death to their career.

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I have to admit it was refreshing to see Jeremy Taggart, a man in the Canadian music industry, rally behind the 25 women who have come forward on Twitter. I have a newfound respect for him.

I hope Raine Maida follows suit. I have seen him champion women on a few of his Instagram posts in the past.

 

 

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Edited by sharon
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12 minutes ago, sharon said:

I have to admit it was refreshing to see Jeremy Taggart, a man in the Canadian music industry, rally behind the 25 women who have come forward on Twitter. I have a newfound respect for him.

 

Wow, and it's not just that one post. He's letting people have it in his feed.

 

What's notable here: Jeremy has worked with MG, and they were friends for a long time. MG had him play a drum solo at his show with Jay Baruchel at Massey Hall in 2014.

 

I noticed another familiar name in that Twitter discussion. I won't name him specifically, but the guy who built and ran MG's website for several years during the late 00s is echoing what Jeremy is saying. (I met him at one of the informal bus meet-and-greets after a show that year - he was helping to manage the line.)

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1 hour ago, Williammunny11 said:

Looks like the webstore is no longer up and running...

 

Yeah I noticed it was down yesterday as well...I guess that's likely it for the store.

 

That's largely why I ended up grabbing whatever music of his that I didn't already own physically when I heard about this situation- I suspect that it will become very hard to find his music after this since there won't be any rush for any reprints of CDs or Vinyls by the label (so long my hopes of having WLRRR reissued on vinyl...). I also suspect that his music could eventually be removed from streaming depending on how much publicity this whole situation gets, so having physical backups of his stuff will be important for those of us whole will continue to listen to his music. Unless there's some sort of public redemption after this where he is able to own up to his actions and return anew, I don't suspect we'll ever see his music widely available again. Again, I believe the victims and find his actions immoral and abhorrent, but I still want to be able to access his music.

 

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12 minutes ago, crthiel said:

25 women now?!

 

Not in any way trying to dismiss this—but I was totally thinking about Aerosmith the other night. The book 'Walk This Way' is, in my opinion, one of the best 'rock' bios ever written, and man oh man is there some debauchery in there (on par with Motley Crue's 'The DIrt').

 

I suspect that if all those woman from the 70's were younger (and thus, more present on social media), I could totally see there being hundreds (if not thousands) calling for Aerosmith to be 'cancelled,' citing how they were used and abused by the toxic twins.

 

Obviously, it's not 1978 anymore, but it's important to remember that while Matt is a far cry from the sensative choirboy that many of us imagined him to be (I know that I did), he's in a very, very large club.

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