Polygamy

[swedish stewardess]

Word is out' Canada is a safe haven

Prosecutors fear any case would fail Charter of Rights test

by Stewart Bell

 

The Province

Members of a colony near Creston, B.C., cite religious freedom in their defence of polygamy.

 

 

 

VANCOUVER - Canada has a growing polygamy problem that is earning the country a reputation as a safe haven for men who want to keep several wives, an anti-polygamy lobby group charged yesterday.

 

The failure of authorities to take action against a polygamist colony near Creston, B.C., combined with increased immigration from countries where the practice is common are said to be fuelling the increase.

 

''The word is out there that B.C. is a safe place for polygamists,'' said Debbie Palmer of Eye on Polygamy, which hosted a public forum last night in Vancouver. ''There are many polygamous families coming to Canada looking for a safe haven.''

 

Polygamy is illegal in Canada but B.C. prosecutors have been reluctant to lay charges, partly because they fear they would lose a challenge under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

''It's not prosecuted because it hasn't been,'' said Carmen Thompson, director of the U.S. Centre for Public Education and Information on Polygamy, who also spoke at the forum. ''It's much easier just to let it go.''

 

Another barrier to legal action has been the failure of wives to complain to police. The wives, particularly the very young ones, may fear retribution if they complain, or they may simply be unaware that the actions of their husbands may be criminal. The geographic isolation of colonies such as Bountiful, B.C., add to the difficulties.

 

''Many are trapped in polygamy with nowhere to turn for help since Americans and Canadians alike have no idea what is needed to assist refugees of polygamy,'' said Ms. Thompson, who spent 15 years as a polygamist ''sister-wife.''

 

While polygamists cite religious freedom in their defence, Eye of Polygamy argues it is actually a form of abuse. Colonies such as Bountiful in the B.C. Interior, are rife with incest, rape, physical and sexual abuse, said Ms. Thompson.

 

''This is not about religion. It's about power and greed and sex,'' she said. ''They hide behind the veil of religion.''

 

Polygamy is not just a problem for Mormons, the group said. Refugees and immigrants from regions that practice polygamy, such as South and Central Asia, are also bringing it to Canadian cities such as Toronto and Montreal.

 

''It's not something that you're going to give up just because you've come to Canada,'' Ms. Palmer said.

 

Of particular concern to activists is growing evidence of cross-border trafficking in girls into polygamist marriages. At least 45 teenage girls have been shipped across the border from the U.S. to marry older men in B.C. in recent years, she said.

 

About 15 Canadian girls have gone in the other direction to marry U.S. husbands. The youngest girl was 13 and the rest were 14 to 16. The men they have married were in their 40s, Ms. Palmer said.

 

''No one ever looks at what happens to the women, they never see the heartache or the inward soul of the women who are dragged into it,'' said David Leavitt, a Utah attorney who successfully prosecuted polygamist Thomas Green, whose fifth wife was also his 13-year-old step-daughter.

 

The Mormon church abandoned polygamy in the late 19th-century but some Mormons continue to practice it, arguing they are following the edict of their founder and the Old Testament. The Bountiful colony was established in 1946 and is part of a 10,000-member Arizona group called the United Effort Plan.

 

Ms. Palmer was born and raised in Bountiful. Her father was one of its founders and she was married at age 14 to Ray Blackmore, a colony leader. After rearing her eighth child, she fled and began working to protect the rights of women and children trapped in polygamy.

 

 

Martin would go to polls over same-sex marriage

Last Updated Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:34:05 EST

CBC News

 

BEIJING - Prime Minister Paul Martin said Friday that he's prepared to fight an election over same-sex marriage.

 

Martin told reporters in Beijing that he wasn't keen to hold an election, but said he was willing to go to the polls over the issue.

 

The prime minister's remarks followed Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's allegation on Thursday that the Liberals' support for same-sex marriage could evolve one day into support for polygamy.

 

"It's not my intention to go into an election," Martin told reporters in French. "We want to govern. Am I ready to go into an election to uphold the Charter of Rights against those who would attack it? The answer is certainly yes."

 

Harper was quick to shoot back at Martin on Friday, saying: "If he wants to call an election on this issue, so be it. I am confident that our position on this issue is supported by a majority of Canadians."

 

The opposition leader said he found Martin's remarks difficult to understand. "While he [Martin] promised that the upcoming vote will be free for his backbenchers, he now appears to be threatening them with an election should they vote against his legislation," Harper said.

 

Conservative member of Parliament Monte Solberg told CBC News earlier that Martin "better be careful what he wishes for." He said there were a lot of traditional Liberal supporters, particularly "ethnic" groups, who may "not be with him on same-sex."

 

Same-sex dogs Martin on Asian tour

 

With Ottawa set to introduce same-sex marriage legislation within weeks, the issue has followed the prime minister on his trip to Asia, even as he has visited tsunami disaster zones and China.

 

On an earlier stop in India, Martin ran into controversy over his government's stance on same-sex marriage, when the spiritual leader of Sikhs in India denounced the practice in a public statement.

 

    * FROM JAN. 18, 2005: Same-sex marriage debate follows PM to India

 

Also this week, the Conservatives have begun running ads in ethnic and community newspapers across Canada, urging readers to get involved in the party's effort to stop the legislation allowing same-sex marriage.

 

"We're quite prepared to make this an election issue," Solberg added on Friday.

 

New Democrat MP Bill Blaikie said Martin's comments seemed to be "totally incoherent."

 

 

"[They] may have just been a moment of unthinking bravado," Blaikie told CBC News.

 

Harper links same-sex and polygamy

 

Harper had said the traditional definition of marriage should be enshrined in law or Canada could be faced with more radical demands, such as legalizing polygamy.

 

"I hate to say this, but I think you have to draw the line somewhere," he told a news conference in Montreal.

 

On Friday, Martin called this idea ridiculous.

 

Justice Minister Irwin Cotler had earlier denied there was any link between the two issues. "We don't see any connection – I repeat, any connection – between the issue of polygamy and the issue of same-sex marriage," he said Thursday.

 

Where do you stand on the idea of polygamy? Do you agree with Harper that the issues of same-sex marriage and polygamy are linked?

Edited January 23, 2005 by swedish stewardess

[irish]

lol. id like to see how surviving spouses of polygamous marriages would divy up the benefits should the hubby die. Most old age pension payouts can barely support one spouse, let alone two, or three.

[ecnarf]

I was watching a show on polygamy in Utah on A&E the other day, and let me tell you, that is not the sort of thing I'd like to see in Canada... other than the fact it's already specifically against the law.

 

Well, that sounded wrong... what I'm saying is, polygamy, in my opinion, is one of those things that does pose a threat to women's rights, because polygamous marriages aren't often entered into willingly by one of two parties, and you can guess which party is getting the short end of the stick.

[irish]

Forcing anyone into doing anything against their will usually breeds discontent.

 

what if all parties are willing participants?

[autobahn]

Normally, I would say that it is the choice of the people to engage in whatever kind of relationship they want, but this issue is not so cut and dry.

 

The Mormon church abandoned polygamy in the late 19th-century but some Mormons continue to practice it, arguing they are following the edict of their founder and the Old Testament. The Bountiful colony was established in 1946 and is part of a 10,000-member Arizona group called the United Effort Plan.

 

This is the interesting part of the article. In the late 19th century, polygamy was not simply abandoned, because there was a great deal of confusion about whether or not polygamy was meant to be part of their religious beliefs are not. I won't get into the entire history of the Mormon religion, although it is quite interesting, it will suffice to say that two distinct groups of Mormons emerged. One believed that it is a man's duty to take numerous wives, the other, obviously, did not believe in Polygamy. Colorado City, Arizona, is a city that was founded by the polygamous mormons, and it is almost entirely made up of Fundamentalist Mormons that actively engaged in Polygamy. Even the Mayor has multiple wives. To a lesser extent, areas like Bountiful, in British Columbia, are the same.

 

Although I believe polygamy between multiple consenting partners is fine, there is quite a problem with some of the Mormons practicing polygamy. There are, literally, countless cases of girls as young as 12 being forced into marriage with men that could be as old as 60. Incest is so common in some areas, that women will sometimes give birth to nothing more than a protoplasmic blob. The relationships are often abusive, as well.

 

For me, it really depends on what you're asking. If you're asking if polygamy between willing partners should be allowed, then I say yes. If you're asking if we need to crack down on those who force very young women (and often times their relatives) into marriage, then I say we do. After hearing quite a few of the stories, what happens to a good deal of the women these areas is nothing short of tragic.

 

Just an interesting side note. When the founder of the Mormon faith died, he was replaced by a man named Brigham Young. Brigham Young had multiple wives, and something like 40 children. Interestingly, his great-great-great-great grandson, or something like that, is Steve Young, the NFL quarter back.

 

Under the Banner of Heaven is an incredibly interesting book that goes into a lot of detail about the Mormon religion and its implications today.

Edited January 23, 2005 by autobahn

[Bizud]

It is important to protect the victims of polygamy. It's also important to respect all individuals choice of living arrangment. The answer? Disestablishment of marriage. Marriage is an agreement between two - or more - individuals. Get the state out of it.

[autobahn]

I just don't plan on getting married.

[Matt]

I don't believe in polygamy, marriage is meant to be a marriage between two people. I think Harper is wrong, he did something similar during the election even on a different subject.

[Munk]

I think "marriage" is whatever the participants make it.

[autobahn]

I just don't understand how polygamy works. I can't even find one "partner" that can stand to be around me.

[illestvillain]

A couple I know are polygamous. They seem very happy, so I got no beef.

[autobahn]

A couple is polygamous? LOL

[illestvillain]

Maybe I should explain more....

 

they have multiple sex partners but are a couple together

[autobahn]

That's not polygamy.

[illestvillain]

IT IS IN ZOOLOGY

 

Polygamy:

 

Zoology. A mating pattern in which a single individual mates with more than one individual of the opposite sex.

 

Yeah I had my definitions fucked up

[Biggie]

They're just swingers, baby. And for the record, I put the GRRR in swinger.

[rmak]

if ur not prepared to be with only one partner then dont get married.

Edited January 24, 2005 by rmak

[Munk]

Why? 5 6 7 8

[cavalier_eternal]

i think the whole polygamy thing is just another attempt by the media to get headlines... honestly. we all know that polygamy, for 99% of the proponents, is just a complete sham.

 

yeah, i think the take on it is just biased. apparently a lot of the proponents of gay marriage are implying that they want the benefits and tax breaks of being married in the legal sense... not the aesthetic sense that most of us thought. or so i'm told. i don't know. it's a touchy issue. blah. i don't feel like explaining myself with context. bite me.

[Munk]

Human's aren't naturally monogamous. In a genetic sense, polygamy makes more sense.

[ecnarf]

Human's aren't naturally monogamous. In a genetic sense, polygamy makes more sense.

In a genetic sense, a criminal justice system doesn't make sense. Let's just kill whoever we think committed a crime.

[saturnine]

Human's aren't naturally monogamous.  In a genetic sense, polygamy makes more sense.

In a genetic sense, a criminal justice system doesn't make sense. Let's just kill whoever we think committed a crime.

works for politicians and athletes

[ecnarf]

Human's aren't naturally monogamous.  In a genetic sense, polygamy makes more sense.

In a genetic sense, a criminal justice system doesn't make sense. Let's just kill whoever we think committed a crime.

works for politicians and athletes

They aren't really human, anyways.

[rmak]

lots of scientists here. ;) ever heard of love?

[Bizud]

apparently a lot of the proponents of gay marriage are implying that they want the benefits and tax breaks of being married in the legal sense... not the aesthetic sense that most of us thought.

 

Well no shit. They want the exact same rights as heterosexual couples. Why should they settle for anything less? Why should black people settle for the back of the bus?