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ham_ahoy

Tuition To Rise Again?

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Apparently they lie, that's all. Post secondary is not at all free. Primary and secondary education is *mostly* free... but I'm sure that I had school fees.

 

I only partially agree with state supported education. In countries which practice it, your education future rests solely on your marks. Meaning if you fail (in some countries) even one class, you are booted to make way for smarter students. I don't know about you, but that's not my idea of fun.

 

University should not be unreachable to anybody. I disagree as to whether or not it is restricted to only the richest. As I have said, my student line of credit is in my own name, and the bank didn't even bother to check the financial situation of my parents. This is mainly because of the program I am enrolled in. So I will admit, if the bank won't lend money to people in other programs then maybe the tuition to those programs is to high.

 

I've never found that university is particularly restrictive to the students it allows. One of the people I went to high school with, who is neither smart nor wealthy, is currently attending my university (in an arts program of some description).

 

I think what needs to be looked at more deeply is the mismanagement of funds that goes on inside universities. My university is continually spending money on things, where those funds could be better spent on improving facilities, or reducing tuition. One such example is the major renovation on the administration building, which although the old wing of the building was condemned, was not necessary spending, since there was already a not condemned new wing (which has also been renovated).

 

Unfortunately, education is not free, and somebody always has to pay the bill. Until the citizens of Canada decide that education will be a socialized program, then it will never be publicly funded.

 

Peace

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Post-secondary education in Canada is most definitly not free. Universities charge tution just like those in the US, the only real difference between Canada and the US with regards to post-secondary education is that (near)absence of private (the US definition of private) schools in Canada. Generally, Canadian schools are very similar to American 'state' schools, the difference being that all Canadians pay the same rate (although I know for sure this is not true in Quebec, and would guess that Alberta and Ontario also have special in province programs). International students pay other, much higher, rates.

 

On the general issue of tution rises, I'm kinda torn. A few things people have to realize. First, your education isn't costing you a whole lot compared to almost any US school. Some how people there they manage, financial aid is better there, but students still end up paying 10k alot of the time. Second, countries that have 'free' post-secondary education typically restrict the majors you are allowed to take if the government is footing the bill. Additionally, there is usually some sort of manditory residency after you get your degree, and in the specific case of Finland, I believe that they link it to mandatory military service. Along with that goes the fact that the government is only going to fund the best students. ie. education is free to any student that can manage to keep up.

 

Having said that, I believe that education should be affordable to all. I guess what it really comes down too alot of the time is how bad do you want it. Some how (i'm still not really sure how) I made it through a 4 year degree debt free, supporting myself, with out scholarships except for my first year. Did it suck some times? yes, but it is doable.

 

Education is a "get what you pay for" system. I currently pay for mine with a student line of credit from RBC. My line is approved to $50 000, and will possibly go over that (I may need it extended). My tuition this year was $6 365. last year it was $6 130.

 

That is actually kind of a funny comment considering that what you are paying for is not even a quarter of what you are getting. If you check the funding of your university I'm pretty confident that you will find that tution accounts for a small portion of their budget.

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If you bring up the link to military service: I believe you can get education in Canada for free if you get a military scholarship... though you have to do training all summer, and when your done school you have to work for the military for a period of time. The benefits are pretty huge though. I know a guy who gets a pretty large living allowance and tuition + books paid.

 

Yeah you are right about how much my tuition contributes to the operational costs of the university. I would like to see a break down... maybe I'll ask my students union... but that assumes they're not totally useless.

 

Peace

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I'm not too sure if the flipping burgers comment was aimed at me, but sadly I'm now over qualified to do that, even if I hit rock bottom.

 

I know for a fact that the army had the really sweet program you are describing at some point, I knew a guy who was in that (last I heard he was in Bosnia) but another friend of mine is an officer, and he has told me that that really sweet program is no longer avaliable. I wouldn't take this as gospel, but I'd tend to believe him considering the cuts in military funding.

 

Finding your university's financial data is usually pretty easy. Go to your institution's website and search for "financial report" or "annual report".

 

For example, my undergrad institution (manitoba) had a total budget of 512million in '04, of which 83mil was tution and fees. At least 300mil came from government, with about another 50 mil comming from the government in the form of research grants.

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I went to BCIT in the Television Program.

 

My tuition was very cheap and I got a degree in two years. And I was hired before I even graduated.

 

I'm now paying off my small student loan and it's no burden at all. I'm kinda glad I made the choice I did. I may not have the job I want in the end, but I have a good job in my field and I can work toward something more.

 

I'm working with other people who paid almost $30,000 tuition for a year at Vancouver Film School. Like I said, I'm pretty happy with my choice.

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Why is that is most places in Europe the government covers the cost of University for up to 7 years? I'm sure there are alternatives out there, no one should be making profit on my education. How about increasing the the taxes on large corporations to ease the weight on us?

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A number of countries in europe do offer free post-secondary education, some (scandinavia) accomplish this with extremely high taxes. Others like germany do it by simply having an extremely strong economy.

 

These are not very viable options in Canada considering public opinion.

 

As far as someone profiting off of your education, look at the numbers ToadMan and I posted earlier. For canadian schools to make a profit they would have to increase tution by a factor of 5 or 6. ie. you would have to be paying 20-30k a year, which incidently is what alot of american private institutions charge.

 

The increasing taxes on large corporations is a poor idea, you would flood the market with new grads, and there would be no jobs in canada for them as most of the large corportations would move to countries with more favorable taxes.

 

As it stands now, a large number of canadian graduates (myself included) move to other countries after recieving their degree. Brain drain is an over used catch phrase, and not necessarily as bad a people make it out to be, mostly because they ignore all of the qualified people entering canada from other countries. However, brain drain is still a troubling problem.

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I would agree to that BUT, to play devils advocate for a little bit. What if people don't go to university, and then can't get a job. Well if nobody has a job, then employers don't have employes. Obviously something will have to give: either employers would send new employes on training to qualify them for the job, or employers would just hire people. It turns out that you don't need a degree to do a lot of those jobs, but a degree sets you apart from people that don't have one.

 

I believe that anybody who wants to, should have a right to education. But support only exists for the brightest and the poorest. The rest of us have to pay. If we can't pay, and we're not poor enough, then maybe university isn't right? What about trade school, or apprenticing?

 

Peace

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If you bring up the link to military service: I believe you can get education in Canada for free if you get a military scholarship... though you have to do training all summer, and when your done school you have to work for the military for a period of time. The benefits are pretty huge though. I know a guy who gets a pretty large living allowance and tuition + books paid.

 

Yeah you are right about how much my tuition contributes to the operational costs of the university. I would like to see a break down... maybe I'll ask my students union... but that assumes they're not totally useless.

 

Peace

Take into consideration that to get into military colleges you have to have top marks, like starting at 87-89% upwards, including other factors which can risk your eligablity. Plus its like a nightmare, i know some people who have done it, and it is by no means a cake walk. Up at 5, lights out at 11. However the entire day is schedualed for you, extreamly little time to do anything else. Anyway my solution is something the Univeristy of Ontario in Oshawa is thinking of for next year. Basically you go to school now and pay later, but you only pay a certain amount according to your wage bracket, so you are not paying heavily, you are paying as adjusted by your income. And for anyone who doesnt know what the UNiversity of Ontario is, its a school which opened in 2003, so i dont expect really anyone to know about it. Anyways those are my two cents.

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Others like germany do it by simply having an extremely strong economy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Thanks for the laugh...

 

It's completely intolerable for education, of all things, to cost money.

 

Unfortunatly, that's the way it is, we either pay for it ourselves, or we pay for it through taxes.

 

I'd go with the first, because I don't like the government in control of too much money, and second, education directly beniefs the individual firstly, and society secondary. I don't want your average single mother paying extra taxes to have some already better-off kids get higher paying jobs and become upper-class. However, I don't want your poor-schmuck joe who was raised by Mrs average single mother to work a 18 hour day job so he can pay for an one hour university class. Instead lets make Student loans 100% interest free during your time in University, allow everyone to get them, and if the student doesn't pay them back 7 years after University, then we can start charging interest. That way the individual himself pays for his education and thus doesn't hamper the rest of society for something he alone beniefts from, but he doesn't have to pay when he doesn't have money, but insteads pays when he's making big bucks.

 

 

 

 

God I'm so tired... I hope I wasn't rantly mindlessly.

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I was reading in the paper today that New Brunswick has the highest average tuition in Canada, at about 6000 dollars a year. Ontario comes second with an average of 5000 dollars a year, and Quebec has the lowest with around 2000 dollars a year - all these averages are for undergrad students, not including residence.

 

That's a pretty sad state, if you ask me, considering Ontario tuition rates are triple what they were a decade ago.

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i am so screwed...

 

 

oi.

 

 

 

proportionate taxing. screw the rich...

 

i'm going to hell.

 

and sports stars with million dollar contracts? that's bullshit. it kills me...

 

not to mention the politicians mooching our tax dollars...

 

(i generalize. but whatever.)

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