The Un

[juanpe]

Spain opposed the war, more than 80% of the population said "NO" to that war/invasion... Calm2chaos, do u really think that more than 80% of Spaniards were opposing a war for economic interest??? couldn't u just think that it was because most of the people thought that that war was an illegal war? couldn't u just think that the reason of our social opposition (because the previous spanish govenment against more than 80% of the population supported Bush and Blair) was that society was concious that this was illegal and our mentality is more the one of a pacifist than a military one?

[calm2chaos]

Calm2chaos, do you have any proof that France acted the way it did because of its economic interests OTHER than the fact that you don't like the French?

 

Canada opposed the war. Why did we oppose the war? Was it because Canada has economic interests in there NOT being a war, or was it because the majority of the Canadian people either opposed the war/ would only support the war with U.N. approval?

But like the french we expect canada to oppose war. It's easy to voice those opinions when your not going to ever be asked to stand up and back them. Certain countries we knew would oppose the war. They opposed it because they oppose pretty much anything the US is involved in unless told it's ok by the UN. Canada does not have to worry about there security being left to the UN, thats what we are here for. We on the other hand are not going to leave our security to the UN. The Iraqi war resolution was passed within our congress. Thats all we needed legally. Why wait for an inept organization like the UN to give us permission to do something. Specially when the main players in the UN are going to denoiunce anything we are involved in anyway. Kind of like banging your head against the wall....LOL

[ecnarf]

Would you care to explain what specific military threats Canada is actually facing right now?

[Matt]

The U.N. wanted to find some proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before it okayed the invasion. It's been a while since the U.S. invaded and still no weapons of mass destruction have been found.

[calm2chaos]

Would you care to explain what specific military threats Canada is actually facing right now?

Thats the point...........

 

You face none and never will. You have this luxury due to your location. Nobody is going to mess with canda because they know they will then have to deal with us

 

As far as the WMD's go which is getting to be a tired argument. That was not the one and only reason the US entered into Iraq. But if you want to know about the WMD's why don't you go ask the kurds. They probably can tell you a little something about them since he used some on them. Or was all those deaths a media typo?

Edited September 8, 2005 by calm2chaos

[ecnarf]

Would you care to explain what specific military threats Canada is actually facing right now?

Thats the point...........

 

You face none and never will. You have this luxury due to your location. Nobody is going to mess with canda because they know they will then have to deal with us

 

As far as the WMD's go which is getting to be a tired argument. That was not the one and only reason the US entered into Iraq. But if you want to know about the WMD's why don't you go ask the kurds. They probably can tell you a little something about them since he used some on them. Or was all those deaths a media typo?

Let's try that post again.

 

Is Canada facing any specific military threat right now?

 

The correct response, of course, is no.

[juanpe]

As far as the WMD's go which is getting to be a tired argument. That was not the one and only reason the US entered into Iraq.

a tired argument??? excuse me, but it was the main reason expressed by Bush and his allies to invade Iraq... and where are those WMD's? after so long, NO PROOF has been found that there were WMD's... so it is not a tired argument...

 

and can you explain which the other reasons - for you - for the invasion were?

[supercanuk]

I can already think of a few and all of them are illegitimate. It all boils down to U.S. being world police, and in the worst ways imaginable. Instead of showing solidarity with the people of a oppressed country, they invade it and make things worse.

[Matt]

Maybe Canada is not facing any military threats right now because it has remained a peaceful country and not invaded other ones...

[Bizud]

But like the french we expect canada to oppose war. It's easy to voice those opinions when your not going to ever be asked to stand up and back them. Certain countries we knew would oppose the war. They opposed it because they oppose pretty much anything the US is involved in unless told it's ok by the UN. Canada does not have to worry about there security being left to the UN, thats what we are here for. We on the other hand are not going to leave our security to the UN. The Iraqi war resolution was passed within our congress. Thats all we needed legally. Why wait for an inept organization like the UN to give us permission to do something. Specially when the main players in the UN are going to denoiunce anything we are involved in anyway. Kind of like banging your head against the wall....LOL

 

So Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was legal? If there's no such thing as international law, then what crime did Saddam commit when he invaded Kuwait?

 

Canada has fought in wars before, by the way, there just haven't been any legitimate ones to fight in sixty years. It's not like Canada and France are off in left field opposing the war in Iraq. The overwhelming majority of the world's population, even in some countries that did participate, was opposed to the war, and it's not hard to see why: the reasons given were absurd. Finally, opposition to any war never needs to be justified, it's assumed. You never need to give any argument against going to war, it's up to those who say violence should be used to prove it.

[calm2chaos]

But like the french we expect canada to oppose war. It's easy to voice those opinions when your not going to ever be asked to stand up and back them. Certain countries we knew would oppose the war. They opposed it because they oppose pretty much anything the US is involved in unless told it's ok by the UN. Canada does not have to worry about there security being left to the UN, thats what we are here for. We on the other hand are not going to leave our security to the UN. The Iraqi war resolution was passed within our congress. Thats all we needed legally. Why wait for an inept organization like the UN to give us permission to do something. Specially when the main players in the UN are going to denoiunce anything we are involved in anyway. Kind of like banging your head against the wall....LOL

 

So Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was legal? If there's no such thing as international law, then what crime did Saddam commit when he invaded Kuwait?

 

Canada has fought in wars before, by the way, there just haven't been any legitimate ones to fight in sixty years. It's not like Canada and France are off in left field opposing the war in Iraq. The overwhelming majority of the world's population, even in some countries that did participate, was opposed to the war, and it's not hard to see why: the reasons given were absurd. Finally, opposition to any war never needs to be justified, it's assumed. You never need to give any argument against going to war, it's up to those who say violence should be used to prove it.

No canada faces no threats because they fall under the US millitary umbrella, end of story. No one goes after canada in a millitary fashion because we will not allow it. Thats a pretty simple concept isn't it. And knowing you are safe under this umbrella makes critisizing easy. When you don't have to worry about what other major nations have to worry about. Then you get to be protected as you sit on your moral highhorse

 

The war resolution passed had other reasons for entering into the war, WMD's were part of it. But having years to hide something within an entire country. Something that can be as small as a 55 gallon drum. That could very well be impossible to find.

 

You sometimes actualy have to fight for things. It's all well and good to run off to your anti war party. Call the soldiers nazis and the president hitler. It's these same guys that have been fighting and dying for hundreds of years to give many of you the right to insult them.

[TheKwas]

You realize that you didn't address any of the points he brought up right?

[Matt]

Canada does not have any military threats because we do not go invading countries. But, if you want to be on some sort have moral high horse as you put it, where was the U.S. in the begining of World War's 1 and 2? The U.S. fought basically in World War One for six months actually being in the war. The decisive blow came from the Canadian and New Found Land Armies (at the time New Found Land was separate from Canada) at Vimy Ridge. When Canada managed to take Vimy from the Germans after the British and the French (who were the major military nations at the time) failed and the Canadians did it with less casualties (if I remember correctly). In World War Two, the decisive blow came at Stalingrad by the Soviets. They managed to turn the Nazis around and send them back to Germany. However, the British, U.S., and Canadian army managed to help speed up the end of the war in Europe through invading Normandy. Also the American Revolution had lots of help from the French who kept the British from getting out to sea, at which point the war could have gone the other way. The Gulf War and Afghanistan War, the U.S. also had help from other people again. If anything the U.S. has had lots of help from other nations over the years, however, they did not have help when they went to the Vietnam War, and lost that one big time.

[ecnarf]

Okay, calm2chaos, let me put it this way:

 

Is the US facing any military threats right now, or has it been facing any military threats in the last five years?

[Ravenous Yam]

Canada does not have any military threats because we do not go invading countries. But, if you want to be on some sort have moral high horse as you put it, where was the U.S. in the begining of World War's 1 and 2? The U.S. fought basically in World War One for six months actually being in the war. The decisive blow came from the Canadian and New Found Land Armies (at the time New Found Land was separate from Canada) at Vimy Ridge. When Canada managed to take Vimy from the Germans after the British and the French (who were the major military nations at the time) failed and the Canadians did it with less casualties (if I remember correctly). In World War Two, the decisive blow came at Stalingrad by the Soviets. They managed to turn the Nazis around and send them back to Germany. However, the British, U.S., and Canadian army managed to help speed up the end of the war in Europe through invading Normandy.

Also interesting to note about Normandy, although the USA often gives itself much credit for winning Omaha beach and 'turning the tide of the war', that is not exactly how it went. The 'Germans' at Omaha were actually Czech conscripts, mostly poor, little trained farmers. The elite Germans squads were at - surprise, surprise - Juno beach, and whichever the Aussie beach was (i can't remember its name). Also, both the Canadians and the Aussies took their beaches quicker, and with less casualties.

 

The USA did literally nothing in WW1, and all it did of use in WW2 was fight Japan in the Pacific theatre, which may as well have been a totally different war. Unfortunately, american students are taught that they saved the world in not one, but BOTH world wars. When really, they did just about jack all. The war in Europe was over by the time the USA dropped the bomb on Japan, and they really didn't help much in Europe when the war was still going.

 

The country that is overlooked most in the winning factors of WW2 in the USSR, largely due to the cold war anti-communist dogma. There is NO CHANCE the Allies would have won the war if the USSR had not switched sides. Even if it had become neutral after leaving the Axis, the Allies still would not have won. The USSR was absolutely imperative to the allied victory in WW2.

 

And i don't even wanna get started on the Vietnam war. Let's just say that the entire war was manufactured by the americans (they were executing terrorist bombing activites in both NV and SV to escalate the war), and both countries wanted to be communist. Pretty much anything that has ever been portrayed in movies, TV, and most textbooks about Vietnam is totally fabricated. I did a report on Vietnam last year... it's very interesting stuff. In Vietnam, the name of that war (in both 'sides' of the country - note that there really were no sides, as everyone hated the Americans and everyone wanted communism) is "The War Against the Americans to Save the Nation". I imagine there's an abbreviated version in Vietnamese... thats pretty unwieldy.

[supercanuk]

In addition to that, the USA ties to the Nazi party are both staggering and scary. I.E. Phanta Orange ( spelling?) the Coke product in Germany, IBM and the first counting machines( Watson + Hitler), and least we forget Walt Disney clear support of said party. Don't give me that horeshit that the American corporations didnt know what was going on, they knew full well. Even in NYC their were people in clear support of what the Nazi's were doing to the jews. The amount of money made before, during, and after is often sickening. But war profits are i guess and American specialty.

Edited September 13, 2005 by supercanuk

[TheKwas]

I.E. Phanta Orange ( spelling?) the Coke product in Germany, I

Don't ya wanna Fhanta?

 

That stuff is pretty good.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

Canada does not have any military threats because we do not go invading countries. But, if you want to be on some sort have moral high horse as you put it, where was the U.S. in the begining of World War's 1 and 2? The U.S. fought basically in World War One for six months actually being in the war. The decisive blow came from the Canadian and New Found Land Armies (at the time New Found Land was separate from Canada) at Vimy Ridge. When Canada managed to take Vimy from the Germans after the British and the French (who were the major military nations at the time) failed and the Canadians did it with less casualties (if I remember correctly). In World War Two, the decisive blow came at Stalingrad by the Soviets. They managed to turn the Nazis around and send them back to Germany. However, the British, U.S., and Canadian army managed to help speed up the end of the war in Europe through invading Normandy.

Also interesting to note about Normandy, although the USA often gives itself much credit for winning Omaha beach and 'turning the tide of the war', that is not exactly how it went. The 'Germans' at Omaha were actually Czech conscripts, mostly poor, little trained farmers. The elite Germans squads were at - surprise, surprise - Juno beach, and whichever the Aussie beach was (i can't remember its name). Also, both the Canadians and the Aussies took their beaches quicker, and with less casualties.

 

The USA did literally nothing in WW1, and all it did of use in WW2 was fight Japan in the Pacific theatre, which may as well have been a totally different war. Unfortunately, american students are taught that they saved the world in not one, but BOTH world wars. When really, they did just about jack all. The war in Europe was over by the time the USA dropped the bomb on Japan, and they really didn't help much in Europe when the war was still going.

 

The country that is overlooked most in the winning factors of WW2 in the USSR, largely due to the cold war anti-communist dogma. There is NO CHANCE the Allies would have won the war if the USSR had not switched sides. Even if it had become neutral after leaving the Axis, the Allies still would not have won. The USSR was absolutely imperative to the allied victory in WW2.

 

And i don't even wanna get started on the Vietnam war. Let's just say that the entire war was manufactured by the americans (they were executing terrorist bombing activites in both NV and SV to escalate the war), and both countries wanted to be communist. Pretty much anything that has ever been portrayed in movies, TV, and most textbooks about Vietnam is totally fabricated. I did a report on Vietnam last year... it's very interesting stuff. In Vietnam, the name of that war (in both 'sides' of the country - note that there really were no sides, as everyone hated the Americans and everyone wanted communism) is "The War Against the Americans to Save the Nation". I imagine there's an abbreviated version in Vietnamese... thats pretty unwieldy.

;) There are many, many errors within this post.

[Bizud]

Yeah, that was basically a load of crap.

[supercanuk]

I.E. Phanta Orange ( spelling?) the Coke product in Germany, I

Don't ya wanna Fhanta?

 

That stuff is pretty good.

Can't say ive had it, what does it taste like?

[TheKwas]

The stuff I had tasted kinda like Sobe or those other fruit-drinks like Fruitopia.

[Matt]

My post was fine but there was some errors Yam's post...

[Ravenous Yam]

Point them out please. I don't deny they are there, but I am interested, because all that stuff was from social class; i didn't just suddenly decide to try and bullshit you guys.

[Ruettiger]

I would also like to have the errors pointed out, as I learned the same thing.

[TheKwas]

Well, first off, I'm pretty sure Russia was never an Axis power, they were netural up until OB.

 

Second off, America sped up the First world war by an unbelievable pace. The war would have continued to be in a state of attrition for much longer without America.

 

Third off, I forget all the details, but Juno beach was alot wider and more open than any of the other beaches, and was guarded more sparely.

 

Forth off, The war in Europe wasn't over when the US joined, they are responisble for helping out in the liberation of western Europe, North Africa, and the Medditranian(sp?) Whether or not the Red Army could have countined their offensive so successfully without the German forces being relocated back west is questionable.