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Hey British Columbians Of Voting Age

If an election were held today, who would you vote for?  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. If an election were held today, who would you vote for?

    • Liberal Party
      5
    • New Democratic Party
      9
    • Green Party
      0
    • Democratic Reform
      0
    • Marijuana Party
      3
    • Other
      0


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Pretty self explanatory. For those that don't know, Democratic Reform BC is a new party that paints itself as centrist. They have one MLA (a Liberal defector).

 

Barring any big surprises, I'll be voting NDP. Leftist reflexes aside, Carole James (leader) has promised, among other things, the three things most important to me in this election:

 

1) Freeze tuition fees

2) Repeal $6/hour training wage

3) Provide balanced budgets

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Last year I voted Liberal to offset my parents who were voting Conservative. Thinking back, I should have voted NDP or at least Marijuanna Party.

 

I love Marijuanna Parties.

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The Liberals are the furthest to the right of all significant parties in BC. I think there is a very small Conservative Party of BC that ran like six candidates in the last election, but even if they ran a candidate in every riding they'd be irrelevant; the BC Liberals are more or less on the same page as Ralph Klein's Conservatives, at least economically.

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1) Freeze tuition fees

So they are going to be helping the universitys to lose money again. That is what happens when tuition does not go up at the rate of inflation, the schools lose money. Now that everyone is caught up, it is time to cap the tuition fees at the rate of inflation.

 

3) Provide balanced budgets

 

They did such a great job doing that the last time around, oh wait no they did not. They had a couple fudge it budgets even.

 

But I think the comparison on finacial management by both parties on www.bcliberals.com states my point best.

 

Overall Promises and Results

 

NDP Record

Campaign commitment:

 

“We will not spend more than British Columbians can afford." (NDP Platform 1991)

 

-Introduced 5 separate fiscal management plans - not one target outlined in those plans were met.

-In nearly every category - deficits, debt management and spending - the NDP missed their promises, year after year.

-Introduced 8 consecutive deficit budgets, including two "fudge-it" budgets.

-Tax and spend policies reduced BC to “have-not” status.

 

BC Liberal Record

Campaign commitments:

 

"Honestly balance the budget, without cutting funding for health care and education"

 

"Pass real Balanced Budget legislation"

 

"Introduce a dramatic cut in personal income taxes"

 

-Met or exceeded every significant budget target.

-Deficit/Surplus targets were exceeded in every budget.

-Significant tax reductions throughout the term.

-Debt targets were exceeded in every budget.

-Spending targets were met in every budget, including significant

-funding increases in health care and education.

 

 

Debt

 

NDP Record

-Doubled taxpayer supported debt in less than a decade.

-Increasing debt resulted in $2.6 billion a year being spent on interest costs.

-Debt-GDP ratio increased dramatically - by 20% in less than a decade.

 

BC Liberal Record

-Provided a record $1.7 billion pay-down of debt.

-Debt-GDP ratio has decreased by over 10% and will continue to go down over the next three years.

 

 

Deficit/Surplus

 

NDP Record

-Left a $3.8 billion structural deficit.

-Countless missed budget forecasts and two “fudge-it” budgets.

-After 8 consecutive deficit budgets, the NDP balanced budgets 2 times in a decade - once due to windfall energy returns from California's energy crisis and once due to accounting changes.

 

BC Liberal Record

-2 consecutive balance budgets under Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

-Near record surplus of $1.7 billion in the 2004/05 fiscal year - a record for BC.

 

 

Taxation

 

NDP Record

-BC had the highest personal income tax rates in Canada.

-Imposed $2 billion worth of new taxes on everything from personal to corporate income.

-Fees, royalties and taxes had increased roughly 1.5 times faster than British Columbians’ pre-tax incomes.

 

BC Liberal Record

-Introduced significant tax relief - for net relief of over $1.5 billion.

-Significantly improved the competitiveness of BC industries, leading to economic renewal and leading Canada in job creation.

730,000 low income British Columbians will pay lower taxes - including 330,000 who will now pay no tax.

 

 

Spending

 

NDP Record 

-In the 1992-1999 period, the government increased spending from $17.2 billion to $22.2 billion - over 30% increase. Spending increased faster than the ability to pay for programs.

-NDP Finance Minister Paul Ramsey admitted they had made no provision for paying for all of the spending commitments they made in the run-up to the 2001 election. On Page 95 of the 2001 Budget Report: “Fully funding all these pressures would not be possible given the forecast increase in revenue."

 

BC Liberal Record

-Provided a clear plan to get spending under control, protect and increase funding for health care and education, and balance the budget.

-Increased funding in health care by $2.4 billion since 2001.

Increased education funding by hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

 

Credit Ratings

 

NDP Record

-Two credit rating downgrades and the worst fiscal record in Canada during the 1990s.

-Significant interest cost increases - hundreds of millions - resulted from the downgrades.

 

BC Liberal Record

-Credit upgrades from Standard & Poors.

-Significant interest cost savings.

 

 

But that’s not all.

 

Do you remember these other NDP fiscal boondoggles?

 

-$463 million wasted on “fast” ferries

-$1 billion in business subsidies

-$310 million for the NDP’s “fixed wage” policy

-$1.2 billion in Forrest Renewal B.C. spending, without a business plan

-$73 million for a Convention Centre study, again, without a business plan

-$125 million in foregone federal revenue from the Nanoose Bay lease fiasco

-$65 million on a photo radar program that failed miserably

-$11.4 million for Hydrogate losses

-$25 million loan for a private company that planned to turn Burns Bog into a theme park

 

Comparing the NDP’s fiscal mismanagement with the BC Liberal government’s record in office is truly striking.

 

There’s no doubt, your tax dollars are well-managed by only a BC Liberal government.

 

To some money may mean nothing, but without a good budget and a strong economy, there is not enough money for social programs. The money we do spend over the amount we actually have leaves less money for the future. If we really want social programs we need to have money for them now so we are not spending what we do not have. We can generate more dollars for them by bringing in more jobs which we would get to tax both the business and the person now taking home a cheque (taxes that would be made anyways). By creating jobs, you are allowing people to not live off of the government as much also. By bringing in many new jobs, if business is exceptionally good to a company then they might consider bringing offices here which provides jobs for our trained mangerial people. There are many benefits to developing a strong economy.

Edited by Matt
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BC Liberal Record

-2 consecutive balance budgets under Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

-Near record surplus of $1.7 billion in the 2004/05 fiscal year - a record for BC.

 

Whaaaaa? Can someone find another source backing this?

 

 

And the rest of it was a farce, give an clear-cut example of how bad the NDP is and then make a generalization about how good the Liberals are. I could make a simlar chart regarding any party.

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So they are going to be helping the universitys to lose money again. That is what happens when tuition does not go up at the rate of inflation, the schools lose money. Now that everyone is caught up, it is time to cap the tuition fees at the rate of inflation.

If tuition fees keep rising, and wages do not, fewer people will be able to afford post-secondary education. The universities don't have to lose out on this. There's plenty of money to go around; the universities need more of it so that tuition fees can return to affordable levels.

 

They did such a great job doing that the last time around, oh wait no they did not. They had a couple fudge it budgets even.

 

You mean rumours that have been long disproven? Yeah, kthx. There were never any fudge-it budgets. You want to talk fudge-it budgets, ask yourself how we've got such a massive surplus in '04-'05 after running near-record deficits for the past three years? Hmm, could it be, running a deficit budget and borrowing a lot of money, not spending said money, and then using it to declare a massive surplus right before the election?

 

8 consecutive deficit budgets

 

Out of context that looks bad, but consider that the deficit was inherited from the SoCreds, and that each deficit was smaller than the one before it, and that by the end of their second term a substantial amount of money had gone towards paying down the debt.

 

To some money may mean nothing, but without a good budget and a strong economy, there is not enough money for social programs. The money we do spend over the amount we actually have leaves less money for the future. If we really want social programs we need to have money for them now so we are not spending what we do not have. We can generate more dollars for them by bringing in more jobs which we would get to tax both the business and the person now taking home a cheque (taxes that would be made anyways). By creating jobs, you are allowing people to not live off of the government as much also. By bringing in many new jobs, if business is exceptionally good to a company then they might consider bringing offices here which provides jobs for our trained mangerial people. There are many benefits to developing a strong economy.

 

So, we should follow the American model, rather than the Scandianavian model? If that's such a great idea, why are social programs in the United States (the world's most indebted nation) among the worst in the industrialized world, and Norwegians have the best quality of life in the world (not to mention a robust economy and zero debt)?

Edited by Bizud
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The N.D.P. well over spent the amount of money they had each time and never did anything well with it. I am not saying we need the U.S. system but we have to consider the consequences of letting a government back in which could not balance the budget before. Tuition has to be kept at the rate of inflation or the schools lose money, it's quite ridiculous to expect otherwise, the taxpayers already pay for a large portion of the tuition.

Edited by Matt
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And taxpayers can't pay any more? Canada has among the lowest taxation rates in the first world. We could stand to pay much much more.

 

I am not saying we need the U.S. system but we have to consider the consequences of letting a government back in which could not balance the budget before.

 

The Liberals balanced to not-balanced budget ratio is worse than the NDP's. The NDP had, if I'm correct, 8 deficit budgets out of ten...the Liberals have had three out of four. Who's worse? Also, compare the NDPs deficits to the SoCreds, and compare each successive (smaller) deficit, and compare the Liberals first three massive deficits to the NDP surpluses that preceded them.

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I thought the NDP's mistake was racking up debt - how can this require running a deficit to fix, Matt?

 

If you ask people if they want more money piped into health care, education, social programs in general, etc, they say yes. If you ask them if taxes should be raised to accomplish this, the number decreases a bit, but most people still say yes. If you ask people "should we pay higher taxes?" they say no. What does this tell you?

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Under the Liberals, more money has gone into health care as well as more spaces for students to learn the neccessary courses to treat patients. The N.D.P. did not do this, so if it is about medi-care the Liberals are doing a better job too.

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I don't know how I forgot about this thread.

 

There's "more money being put into health care" because facilities were closed, jobs were eliminated, wages lowered, and work hours increased. Remember how this almost caused a province-wide general strike not so long ago (something I think should have happened, and would have if the bastard union leaders hadn't sold the union members out)?

 

Hey, I know how we can have tons of money to fix the education system too, just stop paying the teachers and close all the schools! manic.gif

 

But really the federal Liberals are to blame for the health care system's woes - to "slay the deficit dragon," Martin & Chretien cut transfer payments to the provinces. Now, there are three ways for a provincial government to respond to this. One is raise taxes to compensate. Two is run deficits to compensate. Three is provide worse service, stick your thumb up your ass and whine about the feds. Personally I think number one is the obvious choice. The NDP went with a mix of options one and two - mostly two, though they had reduced the deficit to zero by the time they were voted out. We're lucky the SoCreds or Liberals weren't in power at the time, though, because they would have gone with good ol' option number three - user pay, fuck the poor, every man for himself.

Edited by Bizud
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The B.C. Liberals have lowered taxes for the poor, I like how that is conviently never mentioned. Also the poor do not pay a surplus for health care still.

 

There are less people using education then there used to be since the baby boom is long since over and birth rates are not as high as there were. That's why the cuts happened. But, money has been wasted and yet teachers expect more. I know teachers who whine about the B.C. Liberals yet do not teach the class as well as they could. I do not believe tax payer money is paid to them to whine, but to teach. One of the worst offenders (I know), took twenty minute breaks, it was more of an independant self-paced course. But generally, because I was the only one who could catch the teacher at the right times, I would know what to do, and I would have to teach a couple others, and then they would do the same. That is wrong, the teacher is paid to teach all the kids. I have had the other end of that where teachers would not give me the help I needed when I have asked and basically left me to my own devices until I nagged them enough to teach me the proper method, which should have happened automatically. If teachers want to earn more money it is time for them to teach, not whine. I have been in classes of thirty-eight students, and I have learned the same amount as I did in class rooms with less students, sometimes more, depending on how well the teacher tried to ensure the student learned the material.

 

Health Care is a slippery slope, but the cuts had to be made. Unfortunately any time there is money to be invested in the health care system, the doctors and nurses go after it first. But under the N.D.P. they did not increase the amount of spaces for students to take health care courses in University and College at all. Under the B.C Liberal government, that has changed, more spaces are continuing to happen. That is how we have more doctors and nurses staying here, because there are more being educated, meaning more are likely to stay here.

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Nurses are probably the most sinfully overworked employees in the province.

 

Yeah, lower taxes a smidge for the poor, a lot for the rich, and use the lack of funds to justify cutting services that benefit most people, especially the poor, a lot more than a cheque for $300.

 

As for teachers, I can't speak for all of them, and there are always exceptions, but teachers in general are underpaid and overworked, especially considering the stressful nature of their jobs.

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There are some good teachers out there, but I, myself, have had many teachers who did not deserve pay raises.

 

What is the point of having services for the poor if we are going to underfund them eventually? I would rather see services that are well planned out with ways to pay for them without raising taxes or hurting other areas of the province before we fund them.

 

I do believe the nurses received a pay wage not too long ago as well.

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