Hey British Columbians Of Voting Age

[Bizud]

What is the point of having services for the poor if we are going to underfund them eventually? I would rather see services that are well planned out with ways to pay for them without raising taxes or hurting other areas of the province before we fund them.

 

That's actually the point, we can afford them, if we pay more in taxes (and by "we," I probably don't mean you and me). We can afford to pay more in taxes; look at other countries that do and tell me we can't.

[Matt]

As I have said before...

I have explained why raising rich peoples taxes would be bad before. They will most likely not pay them, but they will put it into the cost of their goods and/or services. This means it costs more for a poorer person to buy goods, this means they have less buying power. Layoffs follow, which means even more people have less buying power, and more layoffs follow. This could follow into a reccession and possibly even a depression. This does not help poor people, but actual hurts them further because they can buy less then before. This also leaves less money for social programs that could help them out.

[Bizud]

See response to that post in other thread.

[Matt]

See response to your response in other thread.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Matt

[Crusader]

Ot: I think I fixed the double post problem. If no response has been posted after an hour you can post again. Let's hope I coded it properly.

[TheKwas]

There are less people using education then there used to be since the baby boom is long since over and birth rates are not as high as there were.

Muh?

 

What education level are we talking about about? Because I know that the majority of echo boomers are currently in the education system at the high school/late elementary level, as I myself am an echo boomer.

 

And you can't generalize and punish an entire professsion because you had some bad teachers.

[Matt]

Many of the buildings were built after the baby boom when there were far more students that were born during the baby boom utilizing them. Not there are less students compared to when the baby boom happened. Many schools have also had expansions added on to them providing more space in them. So that's why many of the school closures happened.

 

Also teachers can be generalized that way because that is how some people decided whether or not they deserve a raise.

[Bizud]

I don't believe you should pay people different amounts based on an arbitrary standard of "how good at their job they are."

[Matt]

Actually they should be paid based on how well you do. If you do a good job, you deserve a little extra money, if you do a poor job, you do not. We have to give people a reason to do well or else some will take advantage of that, unfortunately.

[phantomzero]

I normally don't like to get into debates on politics, but I have to say that I'm with Matt on this one. It doesn't take a very long look to see how poorly the NDP have run this province in the past. The Liberals are the best pick in the coming election. Things have been wrong in this province for a long long time, and the liberals are taking the province in the right direction.

[Bizud]

I normally don't like to get into debates on politics, but I have to say that I'm with Matt on this one. It doesn't take a very long look to see how poorly the NDP have run this province in the past. The Liberals are the best pick in the coming election. Things have been wrong in this province for a long long time, and the liberals are taking the province in the right direction.

I don't understand that way of thinking at all. How are the Liberals setting things on the right track? Service cuts, tax cuts, deregulation and privatizations? That's not the right track at all. Look south of the border for where that track leads.

[Matt]

Just because people have taken things in that direction in the past does not mean it will happen again. Already the Liberals in B.C. have increased health care funding for the last three years. The Liberals are remanaging the province, and privitization had to happen in some areas. The ferry service is now run like it's privately owned (and it is in some ways) because it lost so much money. Hydro had to have some of it privitized because they had no money to do anymore projects. The N.D.P. mismanaged things so the Liberals have had to make some very tough calls in the best interests of getting B.C. out of the problems. Sometimes the problem has to get worse before it becomes better.

[phantomzero]

I'm still with Matt on this one. It can't be all shits and giggles for things to get set straight. We need to trim where required, and get our asses heading the right way. BC has the resources to be number one in Canada.

[Munk]

Nice non-answer.

[phantomzero]

Thanks, I liked it too! I also really enjoyed your fascinating reply to my non-answer.

[Bizud]

Thanks, I liked it too! I also really enjoyed your fascinating reply to my non-answer.

I saw your political test results, you were left-libertarian, right? So in what way are the Libs getting us back on track? Is it the higher tuition fees, or the lower wages? Is it the lower taxes, or the higher deficits? Is it the privatizations, or the service cuts?

[TheKwas]

Many of the buildings were built after the baby boom when there were far more students that were born during the baby boom utilizing them. Not there are less students compared to when the baby boom happened. Many schools have also had expansions added on to them providing more space in them. So that's why many of the school closures happened.

When did these closures happen? If it's anywhere within the last 5 years, your arguement doesn't make sense. As the lowest point of student attendance would be in-between the baby boom and the echo boom, and thus the closures would have happened during that period and not during the echo boom where attendance is raising once again.

 

EDIT:Grammer.

Edited April 15, 2005 by TheKwas

[Matt]

The cuts happened recently. But the closures never happened, and even though attendance is rising, some of those buildings are aging and it was worth it more to add on to existing schools that are still in really good shape. Also attendance is still low enough that they could close down older schools.

 

Bizud, tuition fees have to stay at the rate of inflation or else the institutions are losing money. You have mentioned how teachers,and nurses deserve raises but what about the administration of the schools? Should they take home less too every year so students can pay less? Adminstration is not an easy job in itself either.

 

Also, the Liberals have paid off the debt this year as well as balanced the budget, the N.D.P. government only balanced the budget twice in all their terms. Privitizations have to be made to some organizations as well. They were losing substantial amounts of money. That money could be better used to be spent on social programs than on ventures that are losing money.

[Bizud]

Those two records you sited - the NDP's (who inherited a massive deficit) 2 balanced budgets over two terms and the Liberals (who inherited a surplus) one balanced budget over one term - are about the same thing. Moron.

 

This shit has gone on long enough.

 

The Liberal Record:

 

http://strategicthoughts.com/record2005/realwages.html

 

Now, to put the nonsense about BC's economy being shit during the 90's to rest, hopefully for good:

 

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/bus_stat/bcea/tab1.htm

http://strategicthoughts.com/record2005/provgdp.html

 

A look at statscan will also show how BC experienced record job creation and record population growth. Keep talking out of your ass, Matt, about how the NDP were driving us to ruin and the Libs are getting us back on the right track. The only reason those stupid ideas are held by anyone is that the people we rely on to tell us these things - the media - just happen to be owned by people who, for $ome rea$on, prefer the Liberals.

[Matt]

The Liberals have had two balanced budgets under generally accepted accounting priciples. I am talking about what I know. The Liberals have paid off some of the debt even. Did you ever think that maybe you are going to N.D.P. friendly sources? No one is impartial. Also, you can deny it all you want, but the Liberals have put money to pay off the debt this year as well as had two balanced budgets under the generally accepted accounting priciples.

[Bizud]

Right, right, BCStats and Statscan are working for the NDP.

 

Here's more. This source obviously is biased, but that doesn't make it false:

 

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2004/n08de04a.htm

 

Here, from the same website, but referring to a report from the (admittedly left-leaning, but respected) Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives:

 

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2004/n14jn04c.htm

Edited April 15, 2005 by Bizud

[juanpe]

i'm not canadian so i'm not voting but weed party sounds kinda cool, you think there might be some hippies there? cuz i could be down with some of that free love...

that's funny ;) in the last spanish elections for the first time there was exactly a new party called Marijuana Party ("Partido por la Marihuana") and actually they got a lot of votes!

 

I'm not voting either, obviously... but if i was a Canadian i would definetely vote for a left party (as I do in Spain)

Edited April 15, 2005 by juanpe

[Matt]

Right, right, BCStats and Statscan are working for the NDP.

 

Here's more. This source obviously is biased, but that doesn't make it false:

 

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2004/n08de04a.htm

 

Here, from the same website, but referring to a report from the (admittedly left-leaning, but respected) Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives:

 

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2004/n14jn04c.htm

You seem to be missing information though such as how the budget has been balanced twice under generally accepted accounting principles (the same ones many accountants use), as well as how they payed off some of the debt.

[Munk]

I wouldn't mind some links to the numbers Matt's working with.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Jaded Monkey

[Matt]

Go to www.bcliberals.com, or better yet listen to this?, and read this from their website, yes it's a biased source but it backs up what I say.