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ToadMan

Moderator Policies

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Since so many people seem to think that this place is excessively censored here is a thread about the moderator policies.

 

These are the rule for the thread:

 

Ideas must be presented in a way which is reasonable. That meaning that there will be no name calling, no use of propaganda tools (http://www.propagandacritic.com), and no posting of useless bullshit.

 

This thread will not "be funny" so Jam can keep his style of humourous commentary out of here.

 

This thread will not be censored of well presented ideas. To the contrary, and idea presented in a way which is thoughtful will be met with a response that either refutes it (on a logical basis) or admits that the argument is sound.

 

Any attempt to derail this thread away from these rules will be dealt with swiftly. It is my intention to keep this thread open. If that means that post must be removed, then they will be removed.

 

Warnings will only be issued if they violate the board rules.

 

--

 

Now, let the discussion begin. The purpose here being that in order to improve we must understand what is wrong. This is not a discussion of the necessity of moderators.

 

Peace

Edited by ToadMan

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What's wrong is the censorship period. I don't see how that can even be debated.

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Well we can debate the very nature of what is censorship.

 

What constitutes unnecessary censorship? Are all things of equal merit. Should I walking into a preschool yelling "Clitoris". At what point does censorship become immoral?

 

You are asserting that all thoughts, ideas, should be freely stated. This idea has a total disregard as to what would happen when people abuse that concept. What will happen when people use the free flow of ideas so they can express vulgarity?

 

How do we ensure absolutely free speech, with out ensuring that the information channel becomes pollute?

 

Peace

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If you start picking and choosing which messages are acceptable and which aren't, it's no longer free. Period. You can't argue with that.

 

If what's allowed to be said is filtered through another individual's discrimination, a bias towards what's allowed to be said develops. What one person finds vulgar, insulting, or childish, another might not, correct?

 

Because everything is subjective, who are we to decide what's acceptable and what's not? We can only define what's acceptable in our own minds. What that means, is the attention to what's posted is left on the shoulders of those viewing. Not posting.

 

If you don't like it, it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It means you should back out of the thread and find something more your taste.

 

Of course, then there's the case of hijacking and spam. This is difference, since these are cases where the intention of the thread is ignored and something deliberately de-railing is presented. Spam should not necessarily be tolerated because the thread then misleads people as to what to expect upon entering the thread.

 

Sadly, some mods here have a stick up their ass, and call any amount of side-topic'ing within a thread [sometimes even just one post] spam, and delete/ban away. Which is abusive at best.

Edited by Jaded Monkey™

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Free speech is not a right on a PRIVATELY OWNED message board. It's a fairly simple concept that alot of people cannot or will not accept. There's a good reason for this. The idea of free speech itself is too often abused, ie. someone claiming 'free speech', when in reality they're just using it as a shield, allowing them to act in a disruptive manner without fear of reprisal.

 

Censorship of some kind is a neccessity an all such message boards. Depending on the owner and membership, the nature of that censorship may change, but it always has to be there.

Edited by Sparq

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Free speech is not a right on a PRIVATELY OWNED message board.

You're right. In the case of this board, what's allowed to be said and what's not is completely up to Anton, and no one else. Sadly, Anton isn't around 24/7, so he leaves such judgements of what's acceptable up to third-party individuals, which leaves a lot of room for personal bias. I've come back from being suspended with messages from Anton asking why I was banned in the first place. That right there is a good example of abuse that could be easily done away with by not giving individuals the ability to censor in the first place.

 

It's not like the board's ever going to explode over some stray thread about killing nigg3rs. Calm down.

 

 

 

The idea of free speech itself is too often abused

I've already covered abusive spam, but other than that, your statement's a load.

 

edit: And there's no censorship on the Idiot Box. Explain to me how that's possible if some form of censorship is "always necessary"?

Edited by Jaded Monkey™

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I've already covered abusive spam, but other than that, your statement's a load.

 

edit: And there's no censorship on the Idiot Box. Explain to me how that's possible if some form of censorship is "always necessary"?

A load? Want to clarify what you mean by that? I've seen it happen.

 

No censorship on the idiot box, alright... So if someone comes along and fills it with kiddie porn, then someone else calls the RCMP....guess who's gonna take the heat.

 

Yeah, Anton seems to be decent about things. It just seems like the others he put in charge have a bit of an ego trip and want to show that power off.

 

We do our jobs based on what Anton has directed. We apply our personal judgement to that framework. The fact that it doesn't mesh with your own opinion is your problem, not a sign of an ego trip. Why haven't I done anything to the members who follow the rules? Because THEY FOLLOW THE RULES. You do not.

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Well we can debate the very nature of what is censorship.

 

What constitutes unnecessary censorship? Are all things of equal merit. Should I walking into a preschool yelling "Clitoris". At what point does censorship become immoral?

 

You are asserting that all thoughts, ideas, should be freely stated. This idea has a total disregard as to what would happen when people abuse that concept. What will happen when people use the free flow of ideas so they can express vulgarity?

 

How do we ensure absolutely free speech, with out ensuring that the information channel becomes pollute?

 

Peace

but this isn't a pre-school. your argument has no relevance

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A load? Want to clarify what you mean by that? I've seen it happen.

You've seen what happen? Let's use a hypothetical situation.

 

A few posters start a lone thread dedicated to poo and beating up g00ks. It's a contained topic, and they're just joking back and forth amongst themselves. Joe Mod finds the thread, doesn't like the topic, and locks it. Those enjoying the [obviously] light-hearted thread are now pissed, and make 5 more threads protesting the mod jumping on their claimed freedom of speech.

 

Should the mod have locked the thread? I don't think so, no. He didn't like it, but others did, so he should've just backed out of it and ignored them. It's his decision to pay any attention to that topic. They're not subjecting anything to anyone.

 

Of course this brings us back to this being Anton's house and we can go home if we don't like his rules. Which is fine, but even if that is the case, freedom of speech was rejected in this example. And if it's rejected, it no longer exist. There's no "in some cases" with this.

 

 

 

No censorship on the idiot box, alright... So if someone comes along and fills it with kiddie porn, then someone else calls the RCMP....guess who's gonna take the heat.

Fills what with kiddie porn? You mean starts a lone "check out this kiddie porn I found!" thread? The person(s) who perpetuated the subject matter of the thread would. We don't condone it, but it doesn't mean we also reject his right to put himself in legal rough waters. You can be neutral to subject matter.

 

To quote the Terms of Service on the forum:

Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this BB. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.
Edited by Jaded Monkey

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All very interesting but let's try and get back to Jon's original thread.

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i think the mods feel the need to mod stuff so as not to lose the perception of their moddy goodness amongst non-mods

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Topic Split. All of the derailing comments can be found in http://www.nearfantastica.com/bored/index.php?showtopic=4564

 

To respond I would like to say that JM has made some compelling arguments.

 

I would agree that censoring an entire thread on the basis of personal disagreement will infringe on free speech. The problem is how do we control a thread with racist overtones. By control I mean at what point does it not become humourous anymore? At what point is it hate.

 

The thread should be shut down (in my opinion) if the topic is not so much humourous as it is hateful. However, I have a slightly less tolerant sense of humour.

 

I'm glad to see you feel that spam should be removed. I do see your point that moderators occasionally overreact to the hint of spamming.

 

Peace

 

--

 

BTW: The reason many of these threads get closed is because people derail them. This thread will be split each time derailing happens, the derailing posts removed, and then those posts will be merged up with the above listed thread.

 

If you wish to continue any side conversations that start up in this thread, you can go over to the other thread (where those side conversations will eventually reside). I will allow your thoughts on the nature of this kind of censorship to stay... I don't believe it is censoring, since the posts have not been deleted, and I'm telling you where they went.

 

Peace

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i find it funny that jam got a spam warning for posting eight ;) in a post that was relevant to the preceding post and was only done because we have an 8 character minimum (which is useless). that is some grade a bullshit, right there. has personal vendetta written all over it.

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I didn't actually give him a warning, just a verbal one. And you guys implied that I would have an exception to these rules as this is "my house".

 

eta: off to taco bell, I'll be back sometime later.

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The problem is how do we control a thread with racist overtones.  By control I mean at what point does it not become humourous anymore? At what point is it hate.

 

The thread should be shut down (in my opinion) if the topic is not so much humourous as it is hateful. However, I have a slightly less tolerant sense of humour.

At what point it becomes actual hate is subjective also, but let's assume it does. Let's assume it becomes a hate thread. Does it need to be put a stop to? Isn't it their right to believe what they want, as ignorant as it may be? Can't the rest of us just lable the thread "BUNCH OF FAGS" and ignore it? Like I mentioned before, the admins of the board can take a neutral stance to topics they don't agree with. Racist, sexy, or what-have-you.

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I'll be honest... this is a learning experience. If you guys keep up this positive approach, then you will change how I act as a moderator.

 

I can only speak for myself.

 

Peace

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I didn't actually give him a warning, just a verbal one. And you guys implied that I would have an exception to these rules as this is "my house".

 

eta: off to taco bell, I'll be back sometime later.

i know it was only verbal, but still. it would add up on aggregate

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I'm glad you're not as jaded in your beliefs as, well, pretty much 95% of everyone else I've ever met.

 

 

edit: Fucking saturn. >:C

Edited by Jaded Monkey

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The problem is how do we control a thread with racist overtones.  By control I mean at what point does it not become humourous anymore? At what point is it hate.

 

The thread should be shut down (in my opinion) if the topic is not so much humourous as it is hateful. However, I have a slightly less tolerant sense of humour.

At what point it becomes actual hate is subjective also, but let's assume it does. Let's assume it becomes a hate thread. Does it need to be put a stop to? Isn't it their right to believe what they want, as ignorant as it may be? Can't the rest of us just lable the thread "BUNCH OF FAGS" and ignore it? Like I mentioned before, the admins of the board can take a neutral stance to topics they don't agree with. Racist, sexy, or what-have-you.

Jesus, let's put this guy in charge

 

(I tried to make that sound as sarcastic as possible, but then realized it might come off honest. So, let's make this clear. I was being sarcastic.)

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What i've always wondered, and maybe Anton can answer this best, is what are the exact philosophies of profanity on this board?

 

This board allows profanity, which i use but try not to abuse (its actually pretty liberating and gets off some stress), but why exactly do you allow it? I know we have some younger members of this board whose parents may not be pleased seeing some of the language we write.

 

Now, i've always assumed that this board, unlike most others, allows profanity because this is a Matt Good board and his music has lots of profanity in it....so the 2 are sort of joined in a way. ie: If you listen to MG, you already are exposed to profanity so it can't hurt to say some similar things here, right?

 

But then again, MG CD's have warning labels on them about the nasty lyrics (i think) and parents can see this, but they may not know whats happening on this board.

 

So basically, i just want to know what the exact policy is on profanity and more importanly, what is the intended reason for it being allowed?

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What i've always wondered, and maybe Anton can answer this best, is what are the exact philosophies of profanity on this board?

 

This board allows profanity, which i use but try not to abuse (its actually pretty liberating and gets off some stress), but why exactly do you allow it? I know we have some younger members of this board whose parents may not be pleased seeing some of the language we write.

 

Now, i've always assumed that this board, unlike most others, allows profanity because this is a Matt Good board and his music has lots of profanity in it....so the 2 are sort of joined in a way. ie: If you listen to MG, you already are exposed to profanity so it can't hurt to say some similar things here, right?

 

But then again, MG CD's have warning labels on them about the nasty lyrics (i think) and parents can see this, but they may not know whats happening on this board.

 

So basically, i just want to know what the exact policy is on profanity and more importanly, what is the intended reason for it being allowed?

none of them have warning labels except for the US bm because americans are fucked up sissies

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Well that was ignorant. We don't have profanity on this board because Matt Good uses profanity and therefore, in reaction, we feel this underlying need to do so ourselves. We have profanity on ths board because, unless I'm wrong, it's not illegal. So people speak their mind in accordance to the fact that others aren't foolish enough to be effected by simple words that really shouldn't offend anybody.

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none of them have warning labels except for the US bm because americans are fucked up sissies

i am going to pretend that i am not american because that way no one's anti american nonsense can affect me.

 

sweet.

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