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S.M.B.2004

Non-confidence Motion

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I really don't want them to until they've passed the budget and same-sex marriage legislation, but they probably should.

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no, i dont think they should resign but thats just because i dont want Harper to come into power. But on the brightside i can vote this time around ;)

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I pray that the vote is after 21 July. I'm so close to voting...

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Martin's set a budget vote for the 18th. They won't survive it, and we'll go to the polls a month or so after.

 

I doubt Harper will be PM after any election, even if the Conservatives win a few more seats than the Liberals.

Edited by Bizud

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I really don't want them to until they've passed the budget and same-sex marriage legislation, but they probably should.

yeah it would be great if they passed same-sex legislation and some missle-defense legislation that couldn't be reversed easily.......then we go to the polls.

 

But damn, i have no problem with the non-confidence notion passing because does anyone really have any confidence in this gov't anymore? I believe i heard the motion passed 153 votes to 150.

 

If the Liberals should stay in power, let the people decide. But i really do think the people deserve another election after all thats happened.

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For what its worth, most people don't want an election. Let's hope that translates into fewer votes for the Conservatives for forcing one.

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no, i dont think they should resign but thats just because i dont want Harper to come into power.

That's basically my sentiment. I'd be really scared if that Bush brown-noser got into power. Missle defence and Iraq are not the way I'd like my country to go.

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Harper's really scary. Aside from openly advocating going along with US foreign policy, including Iraq and missile defence, I have no doubt that he's opposed to public healthcare and the Canadian Wheat Board but won't say so publicly, for obvious reasons. As recently as two years ago he was president of the National Citizens' Coalition, a secretive right-wing lobby organization that was originally created to campaign against public healthcare.

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Remember Harper's election platform last year?

 

In reference to Iraq, he was talking about "standing with and up to our allies" when it came to international policy. Let's see how much the latter is used if (please please please if) he gets elected.

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For what its worth, most people don't want an election. Let's hope that translates into fewer votes for the Conservatives for forcing one.

I second that.

 

And if there is an election, it'll be another 'voting NDP will help Harper' scenario. And that would suck hard.

 

I must confess, i haven't been that up to date with news lately, my paper got cancelled, but i have heard that there are a few Conservative MP's who won't be able to vote? I hope they can't.

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The "vote NDP to stop Harper" message should be fought hard. It elected several Conservatives in ridings where the NDP should have won (we lost Dick Proctor and Lorne Nystrom, to name just two, and in fact were completely shut out of Saskatchewan, of all provinces). People need to think about voting tactically, and sometimes it's a legitimate choice, but voting Liberal to keep out a Conservative when the Liberal in your riding would otherwise be a distant third is pretty stupid. Fortunately I don't think it's going to fly with most voters this time around.

 

Conservatives who can't vote: Stupidly (some would say "honourably") Ed Broadbent has offered to sit the vote out if Darrell Stinson can't make it (cancer). Why is this not needed? Because a Liberal MP died recently, and it's not like the Conservatives have been having one of their people sit votes out until the by-election. Stinson's absence would just even the score. In fact, if you want to get really honest, if both Conservative MPs with Cancer (Stinson and Dave Chatters) aren't there, I still wouldn't recommend Ed sitting the vote out. Why? Because the speaker doesn't "get to" vote unless there's a tie. Think about it this way: 99 elected Conservatives. Two can't vote. 135 elected Liberals. Other than the two who defected, two can't vote. That makes it even in my mind.

Edited by Bizud

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Wasn't there a big huff recently, with Harper accusing Martin of delaying the vote because then the two Conservatives with cancer wouldn't be able to vote? I know both Martin and Layton thought it was a rather disgusting accusation. I've missed the news the last couple of days, so I don't know if that was widely reported.

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i really wish the Conservatives would get rid of Harper. He makes me really question voting Conservative. On one hand its great that the Liberals may finally be getting out of power soon, but yet it sucks because i wanted the Conservatives to realize that Harper sucks & to have another leadership convention and get someone more..."Canadian" in their beliefs.

 

If the Cons had a less extreme leader they would be a decent party.

 

Maybe i can build a machine and throw Mike Harris and Jack Layton inside & a good candidate would pop out!

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Jack Layton is awesome, seriously. Look at the policies and decide, don't just go with the knee-jerk "NDP can't run teh country!!" reaction.

 

Harper is an extremist, pure and simple. He's in favour of missile defence and support of Pax Americana. He's openly in favour of two-tier health care (it wasn't so long ago that even Stockwell Day couldn't come out and say that - my, how things have changed), and probably privately in favour of abolishing everything from medicare to the Canadian Wheat Board to equalization payments (note, which is the one province in Canada where those aren't considered absolutely raving loony extremist positions?) - he was very recently the president of a secretive lobby group, the National Citizens Coalition, which was originally created to fight against medicare, the CWB, and immigration. You can tell from his statements on the matter that he's opposed to the deals Martin's been brokering to give more money to the provinces. What else, uh, let's see, same-sex marriage legislation? Kyoto? This new budget, which most of us are more pleased with than its predecessor, that Harper can't stand because (oh no!) big business doesn't get an even bigger handout this time?

 

Would the cons be a decent party if they ditched this pyscho? Maybe, but since this is a party of people who by and large like Stephen Harper, what makes you think anyone better would come along? Look at the people who would become cabinet ministers if Harper's PM. Monte Solberg. Stockwell Day. Jason Kenney. Jay Hill. Yeah, real decent party. Don't kid yourself, these people are miles away from Joe Clark's PC's.

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Jack Layton is awesome, seriously.

Am I on crack, or weren't you anti-Layton (Yet pro-NDP) before?

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I used to think he was no good for the party, or at least not as good as he was said to be - for all the talk of revitalization, the NDP won fewer seats under Jack than under Alexa in '97. I've since had a change of heart, but I guess the real test is this election.

Edited by Bizud

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I also want to point out to anyone thinking of voting Conservative "just to spite the Liberals" should remember that Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservatives tried (and very nearly succeeded) in banning abortion. If you think these Conservatives won't, you're insane.

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the conservatives will do a lot more than that (talking bout bad stuff)... say goodbye to any chance left in this country for equal marriage

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Yes it is my belief that voting Conservative will be like cutting off ones head to remove the cancer. One must admit that the Liberal have caused large problems, but Harper is not the answer.

 

Peace

Edited by ToadMan

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i like that, toadman. well put.

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Belinda Stronach has joined the Liberals.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...rals050517.html

 

OTTAWA - Belinda Stronach, who ran for the leadership of the Conservative party in early 2004, has crossed the floor to the Liberal party and will sit in Paul Martin's cabinet.

 

The millionaire businesswoman becomes minister of human resources and skills development, the prime minister said Tuesday morning. She and will also help the Liberals implement the recommendations in the Gomery report on the scandal-plagued sponsorship program when it is delivered later this year.

 

Stronach's defection could keep Martin's minority government in power as it faces two key votes on its 2005 budget Thursday.

 

"After difficult reflection, I reached a conclusion," Stronach told reporters in Ottawa. "I cannot exaggerate how hard this was for me, but the political crisis affecting Canada is too risky and dangerous for blind partisanship."

 

She also said Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, and is jeopardizing national unity by allying himself to the Bloc Québécois.

 

"The country must come first," she said.

 

Stronach said that someday, the Conservatives will grow and strengthen to become a worthy challenger to the Liberals. In the meantime, she thinks her place is with a party that is more responsive to the needs of cities, women and young people.

 

She also said she is looking forward to tackling the Gomery recommendations when they are presented.

 

"Only when the people of Canada have renewed confidence and faith in the systems of government can we return to economic prosperity."

 

Stronach is a small-L liberal who has not always been comfortable within the Conservative ranks, especially on the issue of same-sex marriage.

 

Last week, she said it would be unfortunate if the Liberal government fell before the 2005 budget was passed because it contained measures on municipal funding that were of great importance to her constituents in the Toronto-area riding of Newmarket-Aurora.

 

The former president and CEO of auto parts maker Magna International Inc. lost the Conservative leadership race to Harper in March 2004.

 

Stronach's father, Magna founder Frank Stronach, ran unsuccessfully for the federal Liberals in 1988 when John Turner was leader of the party.

 

Stronach said she broached the matter with former Ontario premier David Peterson, who is a family friend, after running into him and his wife at an event in Toronto last week.

 

Peterson, a Liberal who led a minority government in Ontario in the 1980s before winning his first majority, spoke to her at some length before arranging conversations with federal Liberals and eventually the prime minister.

 

The alliance with Stronach could keep Martin's minority government alive in two key budget votes expected Thursday.

 

Her defection from the Conservatives gives the Liberal-NDP coalition on the budget a total of 151 votes, not including Speaker Peter Milliken, a Liberal MP who votes only in the case of a tie.

 

The Conservatives and Bloc have a total of 152 votes.

 

There are three Independent MPs, one of whom, Carolyn Parrish, has said she will vote with the Liberals. The other two, Chuck Cadman and David Kilgour, have not said which way they will vote.

 

"We still don't know whether the budget will pass or not, but I can count," said a visibly pleased Martin, calling Stronach a "gutsy" new part of his team.

 

In the June 2004 election, Stronach beat Liberal Martha Hall-Findlay in her riding by 689 votes.

 

Martin said Hall-Findlay, who has already earned the Liberal nomination for Newmarket-Aurora for the next election, has agreed to step aside in favour of Stronach's candidacy.

 

Pressed on how her decision will affect her romantic relationship with Central Nova MP Peter MacKay, the deputy leader of the Conservatives, Stronach called that a "personal matter" that she did not intend to comment upon.

 

She also said she had the "greatest respect" for MacKay.

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Poor Peter MacKay, first Steven Harper now this?

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What a day.

 

Now they support the budget, but still oppose the NDP's proposed amendment to axe the corporate tax cuts.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...nach050517.html

 

OTTAWA - The Conservatives will vote in support of the federal budget, Tory Leader Stephen Harper announced hours after MP Belinda Stronach defected to the Liberals.

 

The party will still try to topple the Liberals on a budget amendment that directs $4.6 billion to housing and the environment, Harper said on Tuesday night.

 

His abrupt reversal on the budget vote came after Stronach crossed the floor earlier in the day and joined Paul Martin's Liberal minority government.

 

The defection shifted the razor-thin margin of seats that the Conservatives and their ally, the Bloc Québécois, were counting on to oust the Liberals.

 

Both bills are scheduled for a parliamentary vote on Thursday.

 

Stronach's personal leadership ambitions, not any concern for the good of the country, led her to defect, Harper said earlier in the day.

 

Meeting with reporters less than an hour after Prime Minister Paul Martin announced Stronach was joining his cabinet, Harper acknowledged that losing the MP could foil his bid to bring down the Liberal government on Thursday.

 

"I could see this coming," Harper said, adding that he felt "a sense of relief" that Stronach had left before the beginning of a general election campaign and not during one.

 

"There's no grand principle involved in this decision, just ambition," Harper said.

 

He said he recently told his wife that he "thought it had become obvious to Belinda that her leadership ambitions would not be reached in this party regardless of whether or not we won the next election."

 

Harper added that as a result of expressing that belief to Stronach, "I expected to have problems."

 

But he said it is Stronach who will now have problems – when she faces the voters in her riding of Newmarket-Aurora.

 

"This will ultimately negatively affect Belinda Stronach's chances of being re-elected," he said.

 

Harper said Stronach had given no sign of disagreeing with her caucus colleagues on the Conservatives' decision to try to bring down the government this week.

 

And he said her decision does not affect his belief that defeating Martin's team is the right thing to do.

 

"The governing party is corrupt," he said, repeating an argument he has been making for weeks.

 

"It is in the process of ruining the nation's finances with the biggest vote-buying spree in Canadian history ... and it's doing tremendous damage to the cause of federalism in Quebec."

 

Harper said Stronach's fellow MPs "are feeling quite devastated, quite betrayed by this" – especially Peter MacKay, who has been romantically involved with Stronach for about six months.

 

"I think Peter's taken this pretty badly, as you can imagine."

 

The Conservative leader dismissed Stronach's suggestion that he is not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, singling out her home province of Ontario as a region he doesn't understand.

 

"Everyone knows that I was born in Toronto," he said. "I lived in Toronto for the first 19 years of my life, I still have relatives all across the province and I don't think that's the real issue here."

 

Reaction from political leaders to Stronach's defection:

 

    * Saskatchewan NDP Premier Lorne Calvert: "I believe Belinda Stronach has done the right thing. I believe she has done the right thing for Canada."

 

    * New Brunswick Conservative Premier Bernard Lord: "This is just another action, another moment, that breeds cynicism of electors."

 

    * Ontario Conservative Leader John Tory: "I can confirm for you that I will no longer be campaigning for Miss Stronach."

 

    * Ontario Conservative Bob Runciman: "She sort of defined herself as something of a dipstick, an attractive one, but still a dipstick, with what she's done here today. She is, at the end of the day, going to paint herself as something of a joke."

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