Please, British Columbia, Don't Be Stupid.

[Bizud]

Vote Liberal tomorrow if you want to continue to piss away the legacy that NDP governments have left us with. Vote Liberal to approve of the privatization of BC Rail, BC Ferries, and BC Hydro, all of which the Liberals promised not to do. Vote Liberal to approve of the massive jump in tuition fees and the cuts to student grants. Vote Liberal to approve of cutting the minimum wage to 6 bucks an hour for new workers. Vote Liberal to approve of turning a massive surplus into a massive deficit and lying about it. Vote Liberal to approve of enforcing retroactive pay cuts on hospital employees, and limiting workers' rights. Vote Liberal to approve of the near-privatization of the Coquihalla. Vote Liberal to approve of tax cuts and service cuts that have left the economy of the province no better than it was four years ago. Vote Liberal to approve of the abolition of the BC Human Rights Comnission. Vote NDP to take back our province. Thanks.

[Matt]

The N.D.P. ruined our province, is that the legacy you are refferring to? They're plan revolves on if the economy stays where it is at, which did not happen the first time around either. The Liberals have made some tough calls, but our province was in disrepair before the Liberals even took power. Post Secondary institutions could actually go broke if they are making less every year, which is why the Liberals let them set up a new rate before they put a cap on tuition fees at the rate of inflation, which is a fair rate because without the price rising at the rate of inflation means that they are either making less money or tax payers are paying more for education, which means that money is going to other programs. Also students pay about 15 percent of the total cost of post-secondary while the government pays about 85 percent which means students still have a pretty good deal. The 6 dollar training wage is so people will take a chance on new employees. It costs money to search for workers as well as it costs money to hire them and if they do not work out, then the employeer loses the money they just invested in finding a new employee. The training wage allows him to try an employee or two more out that he might not have been able to otherwise. Also, the only debt the Liberals have incurred is on creating more assests for B.C. (such as the RAV Line). We need to have a better transportation system in the lower mainland to try to keep having more tourist dollars come into the economy. If it is difficult to travel around the area then some may consider not coming to B.C. The paycuts were to even out salaries with the rest of Canada so that we were paying them about what the average is. The province is better though because without a strong economy and by spending money we did not have we were leaving a mess for the future, which means they will have even less to work with then we do now if the Liberals had not started working to fixing that problem.

[Bizud]

I know the line, Matt. Deregulate, privatize, low taxes, cut services, user-pay. We know where that road leads and we don't want to go there. Consider the implications of what you advocate. Consider the impact on people. The training wage is just not enough for most people, who also can probably only find part-time work, to earn a living. Justify it however you want, but if it isn't paying the worker enough than it isn't doing what it's designed to do, and other considerations have to be secondary. You say that leads to fewer jobs, but then why did BC see record job creation during the NDP years?

 

Post Secondary institutions could actually go broke if they are making less every year, which is why the Liberals let them set up a new rate before they put a cap on tuition fees at the rate of inflation, which is a fair rate because without the price rising at the rate of inflation means that they are either making less money or tax payers are paying more for education, which means that money is going to other programs. Also students pay about 15 percent of the total cost of post-secondary while the government pays about 85 percent which means students still have a pretty good deal.

 

Yep, more nonsense. Ever heard of the third option - take in more revenue and put more money from the public coffers into funding the education? Students are the people that can least afford to pay for university tuition, shifting more of the burden onto them is absurd.

 

RAV Line, yeah, I know. That and the bridge in Kelowna. This is standard SoCred politics all over again, you butter up the voters with nice local projects that make the town look pretty, while college students are eating their one meal a day at the local soup kitchen because their welfare cheque covers rent and almost nothing else.

 

We can afford that, but we can't afford to keep the Coquihalla publicly-owned? Oops, wait! We just found out, we can afford to keep the Coq public, which had nothing to do with the mass protests by you 91% of the people who opposed us selling it!

 

Everyone says the province was in disrepair. Show me the goddamned proof.

 

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/14/Rem...ucturalDeficit/

Edited May 16, 2005 by Bizud

[Matt]

The N.D.P. tried to butter up voters too, why do you think they would spend a lot of money paying union demands while nothing was solved when they did that? Also what about the implications on the future peopleif we do not fix up the problems we have now on spending? The only reason there was a record number of jobs created was because the N.D.P. create plenty of un-neccessary and money losing jobs such as the fast cat ferry project which ended in failure, also many people were out of work too under them. The Liberals are working on creating sustainable jobs which does not happen over night. Also students may have to work a couple jobs, but how is that any different than in the past? There were still bills to pay, and education was still costly back then. The tuition freeze made education cheaper than it was before at the cost of the post secondary institutions being able to stay open. Also if the NDP was so good for health care then why did they never add another seat to the medical training classrooms?

[Bizud]

Here we go, hostility to unions. I'll be back later or something, I'm going shopping, but that crap is where I generally tune out. You know someone's not going to listen when acquiescing to union demands sets off alarms but acquiescing to business demands doesn't. There are other ways to stimulate a modern economy than by capitulating to business interests, which are rarely the same as the public's interests. 'Ta.

[Matt]

The Unions that the N.D.P. gave into were not helpful to the B.C. Economy, infact it was the Liberals not giving into them that helped. The N.D.P. is making many of the same promises they did the first time around too, so why should they work out right this time, when the did not the first time around.

[Bizud]

We've had this one before, I think, and we're both repeating ourselves. The fact is that the economy was in great shape already when the Liberals took over. Vote NDP to return to that prosperity. Don't think of this in terms of the economy vs. the compassionate choice. The NDP are the sound economic choice.

[Matt]

The N.D.P. left us with a bad economy, the Liberals are the sound choice economically, they are the ones that turned us around. There was a chance for a boom during the nineties, when the situation was the same as under the Liberals and the N.D.P. was unable to have our economy improve significantly. Also it's not compassionate to the future generations if we live them with a debt, they will have less money to use towards helping people. They will have to take on more debt to pay for social programs, which un-fair and should not have to happen.

[Bizud]

Which is why you should vote NDP, the best party for reducing the debt. You rube. Fifty bucks says we'll see at least one deficit budget from Gordo in the next few years.

[rmak]

Vote Green!!!!!

[Bizud]

The only ridings where voting Green makes any sense are ones where the NDP candidate is even less likely to win than the Green - Powell River-Sunshine Coast and Vancouver-Point Grey.

[cavalier_eternal]

you guys really give 'er. interesting discussion.

 

i think on a certain level, nothing really works, and there's always a tradeoff. what would you rather sacrifice? that's what it all comes down to.

 

but i must say, i'm sick and tired of liberal politicians pissing away our money.

 

(i'm in ontario. yeah.)

[Bizud]

I think in about five hours we're going to find out the NDP blew this election by allowing it to be fought in terms of compassion versus the economy. No tradeoff is necesary, we were in fantastic shape before the Liberals took over. Reducing the debt, huge budget surpluses, etc.

[Matt]

Vote Liberal, the N.D.P. hurt our economy, and the N.D.P. "blew" our money when they were in power by having plans that did not work. Vote Liberal because they are the ones that turned the economy around, not the N.D.P. The N.D.P. was not even in power during the turn around, so they should not have credit for something they did not do.

[Bizud]

Whatever, you're a lost cause. Anyone else, read this and then be the judge.

 

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/bus_stat/bcea/tab1.htm

http://strategicthoughts.com/record2005/provgdp.html

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/14/Rem...ucturalDeficit/

http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/V...clinics20050513

Edited May 18, 2005 by Bizud

[Lauren]

i agree in voting green

[Crusader]

I hope you've all voted today.

[Bizud]

Cast my vote for Doug Brown (and yes to STV) at ten this morning.

 

Whatever, you're a lost cause. Anyone else, read this and then be the judge.

 

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/bus_stat/bcea/tab1.htm

http://strategicthoughts.com/record2005/provgdp.html

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/14/Rem...ucturalDeficit/

http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/V...clinics20050513

 

Pay close attention to the part where Gary Collins forecasts economic growth during the Liberal "Golden Decade" to be, wouldn't you know it, about 3%, the same as it was during the 90's.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Bizud

[Matt]

The Liberals are currently leading... Also the N.D.P. ran the economy into the ground. They created how many jobs through programs such as fast ferries? Those jobs did not last, they were not sustainable in the end.

[Bizud]

Yeah, fast ferries were a blunder, but there were no other programs like it, and that's not related to the health of the economy.

 

Four more years of Liberals, eh? Fuck you, BC. You depend on liars to give you information, you'll elect their liar friends. I also note that the STV referendum will almost certainly fall short of the 60% double majority needed to pass, despite having more than a majority in favour of it (looks like 57% now). How will the Liberals react to this clear indication that most people do want some kind of electoral reform? We all know the answer to that, the answer is "nothing."

 

See you in 2009, after the Liberals have ignored the wishes of the electorate, broken more campaign promises, run a few more deficits, sold a few more state assets, gotten BC slapped with a few more fines for violating of Canada Health Act, and forced a few more workers to accept pay cuts. "More prosperity for BC," eh? Fuck you. Not if you're a student, nurse, teacher, senior citizen, homeless person, young worker, single parent, or unemployed.

 

At least now there are enough fucking opposition members to sit on every committee.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Bizud

[Matt]

Most referendums in B.C. need a 60 percent majority to pass I believe, so it's not like this is anything new.

 

Also the N.D.P. had created many projects (but on a smaller scale) like that.

 

But the N.D.P. are the ones that started privitization, they're the ones that gave away fish farm licenses (the Liberals have only given out one), etc., the N.D.P. are no saints. The idea that the Liberals are so terrible, and the N.D.P. are so great is un-true, the N.D.P. has promised the same promises they have in the past in this election. The Liberals have made investments into health care that will start paying off soon, such as the increased spaces in medical school, I believe there are new facilities that will be opening up soon too. Education is better than it was, Gordon Campbell has simply focused on the education system rather than the teacher's demands. He has added in more tests, to make the system more literate, English classes have become a requirement in Post-Secondary, these are good things for students. The Liberals had a choice fix up long term care facilities or add more beds, they choose to fix up the facilities so that they can continue to improve them. Fixing the problems takes a long time, there is no overnight solution, hard decisions have to be made, but that does not mean the Liberal solution will not work, as sometimes the situation has to become worse before it becomes better.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Matt

[Bizud]

The low-tax, pro-privatization solution can never work. Name one place where it does.

[Bizud]

ANYWAY:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...ote-050518.html

 

VICTORIA - A majority of British Columbians voted for a radical revision of the electoral system but fell short of the support needed to make the province North America's first large jurisdiction with proportional representation.

 

However, Premier Gordon Campbell said Wednesday that the results showed a strong mandate for change.

 

The referendum on electoral reform was held Tuesday during the provincial election, in which Campbell's Liberals captured a second-straight majority government with 46 of the legislature's 79 seats.

 

A majority of people supported ditching the first-past-the-post voting system in provincial elections and adopting the Single Transferable Vote, a form of proportional representation.

 

Although the final tally wasn't completed by late Wednesday, about 57 per cent of the votes counted were in favour of the new system.

 

Under the rules, BC-STV required an overall approval of 60 per cent province-wide – plus a simple majority in 60 per cent of the ridings in the province, a requirement that was met.

 

However, Campbell said the fact that a clear majority voted for electoral reform is "significant." He said he's ready to take the issue forward once the final results are tabulated.

 

"I think we should bring that to the legislature, to all members of the legislature and review where we may go from there, because there is clearly some hunger to see an improvement."

 

Julian West, who helped lead a modestly funded campaign in favour of the reform, said he was heartened by the results and the premier's comments.

 

"I think people really see now that electoral reform is a winnable issue with the Canadian public," he said.

 

"The government got 46 per cent support. The referendum got 57 per cent support. So we're more popular than the government is."

 

NDP Leader Carole James – who led her party's resurgence from two seats in the 2001 election to 33 seats on Tuesday – said she voted against BC-STV, but still supports electoral reform.

 

James said she favours a mixed-member, proportional representation model. She would like to see another referendum on electoral reform, possibly tied to future municipal elections.

 

Maybe if we're lucky the NDP will win in 2009, we'll see a referendum in 2013, and proportional representation in 2017!

 

But seriously, glad to hear it's not dead, and glad to hear James supports MMP, a superior proportional representation method IMO.

Edited May 19, 2005 by Bizud

[Moonlight_Graham]

Just remember that whatever the Liberals say they do, they'll do the opposite....or just don't believe what they say altogether. Thats what happened in Ontario the last Provincial election.

 

Anyways, i know nothing of BC politics, so happy voting y'all.

[Matt]

The Canadian system does work actually in North America, un-fortunately it needs to be fixed up thanks to what happened in the nineties because we fell off track. Also proportional representation does not work. Look how difficult it is in the House of Commons right now to pass bills, we narrowly missed having to go to the polls soon, yesterday.