Please Don't Shoot Me.

[no yu begin wher i end]

it's interesting how when maverick is a dick everyone throws a fit but when saturnine is a dick everyone just laughs.

We're just not used to it. Once it gets more frequent we'll start being apathetic.

[Spritzup]

The difference is that Saturnine isn't always a dick, he does say relevant things on occasions. The same can't be said for Maverick.

[saturnine]

hey, i'm never a dick.. you're all just overly-sensitive douchebags

[no yu begin wher i end]

The difference is that Saturnine isn't always a dick, he does say relevant things on occasions. The same can't be said for Maverick.

Right, my point is that at first a bunch of us thought he was a dick, but now know that he's really not.

[Spritzup]

How about you're sometimes a cock? Jack-ass? Shit Disturber? Or a combination of all of the above?

[no yu begin wher i end]

Only on days that end with 'y'.

[ecnarf]

eventually you'll run out of money to pay them with, though

You mean I've not been getting money for liking Saturnine while others have?

 

Screw him.

[mrs jesus]

eventually you'll run out of money to pay them with, though

You mean I've not been getting money for liking Saturnine while others have?

 

Screw him.

no, that's ok

 

i could do without

[Maverick]

Uh-huh. Everyone disagrees with you, therefore everyone must be wrong. Your debating skills are truly legendary. I tip my hat to you good sir.

Everyone, as in three to four people.

 

And take a look at your company, hot shot. These people aren't exactly Einsteins.

 

You think because three to four of these geniuses think against me that I can't be right?

 

Nicholas Copernicus might have to disagree.

[Spritzup]

I really hope that you're not comparing your 'plight' on these forums to those of Copernicus.

[Irish_Lock]

*Shoots* >_> ;) >_> *Runs away*

[Maverick]

I really hope that you're not comparing your 'plight' on these forums to those of Copernicus.

Was this a necessary post?

 

Of course I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that his argument for why I am wrong and he and his cronies are right is just completely ludicrous.

 

Jesus, you guys try too hard.

[NationofCool]

I really hope that you're not comparing your 'plight' on these forums to those of Copernicus.

Was this a necessary post?

 

Of course I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that his argument for why I am wrong and he and his cronies are right is just completely ludicrous.

 

Jesus, you guys try too hard.

Jesus is only one person ;)

[mikebutt]

No I mean everyone as in 100% of the people who have expressed an opinion on who they feel was right, feel that you are wrong.

 

Look, if you'd like to prove that you are right, just try and explain why you don't feel rap is a valid form of music. The only attempt at an explanation that you made was in your first post and your reasoning was a little bit broad and generalized.

 

Fundamentally, rap is just like any other music except that the vocals are more fluid and dynamic, and the music tends towards being rythmatic rather than melodic. Therefore I feel rap is a valid form of music just like any other. There is a bit of good rap and a whole lot garbage, just like any other style of music. Counter-point?

Edited July 10, 2005 by mikebutt

[Rebabaluba]

Awww Mav is just insecure so he hides it by being an argumentative dick. Thats cute!....ninja ;)

[Maverick]

I'm not even going to respond to that, Rebabaluba.

 

But,I will respond to Mike.

 

How can you interpret rap vocals as being more fluid and dynamic when it excludes tone, the very essense of music, the very factor that makes music beautiful and talented. I'm sorry, but anyone can "talk" to a beat, with rhythm and rhyme. And, no, by anyone I do not include myself. I'm just utilizing a hyperbole to emphasize that it does not take the talent that actual singing takes. I'd urge you to consider that vocal fluidity is enhanced when the voice is used to caress notes and lyrics.

 

Can we not agree that true vocalists, who have a wide range of tone and tone quality also include a great deal of rhythm in their music. Much of which can be compared to that of the rhythm in rap, but instead with an added flavour of gracefullness, as in actual song. I'm talking about being both melodic and rhythmic. You mentioned that rap includes solely (usually)rhythm rather than melody. I would argue that talented artists like Matt include both these concepts. I would also argue that they are both necessary in a composition for it to be labled true music.

 

Another thing that bothers me:

 

I noticed that popularity in the rap industry is more and more becoming a question of image rather than raw talent. I'm not saying that we don't have this problem in alternative, rock, etc. It just seems that it's an issue moreso, categorically, within rap.

Edited July 10, 2005 by Maverick

[mikebutt]

Well, I can interpret rap vocals as being more fluid and dynamic because they are more fluid and dynamic. When I say fluid and dynamic I mean that the lyrics flow rather than coming line by line in a structured format.

 

However, you make a good point when you say that rap is generally less tonal. Most rappers (in fact pretty much all, with a few exceptions) do talk moreso than sing. Rappers don't sing, they rap. However, skill is still involved, but its not the same kind of skill that singing takes. Its based more on a rappers ability to create a distinctive sound for himself through the flow of the vocals, and also his ability to write lyrics. For example, Eminem. I don't like Eminem. His lyrics are bad and his music is even worse, but the one thing he has is a distinctive rapping style, largely based on the heavy usage of assonance.

 

You are obviously a person who places a lot of value on the sound of music. The interplay of rythm and melody. And thats fine. Thats your preference. But I view music as art, just like painting. Thats not to say that I don't find rap pleasing on a sonic level as well, but ultimately it's all about expression, which is why I hate mainstream rap just as much you. It's all image, as you pointed out. But there is some rap, none of which gets airplay as far as I know, although I don't listen to the radio, that is concerned with a message and with creating something new and interesting, not just repackaging the same shit that was in the number 1 spot last week.

[Dan #2]

Another thing that bothers me:

 

I noticed that popularity in the rap industry is more and more becoming a question of image rather than raw talent. I'm not saying that we don't have this problem in alternative, rock, etc. It just seems that it's an issue moreso, categorically, within rap.

That is true, but this thread was about rap that didn't suck.

[Maverick]

Well, I can interpret rap vocals as being more fluid and dynamic because they are more fluid and dynamic. When I say fluid and dynamic I mean that the lyrics flow rather than coming line by line in a structured format.

 

However, you make a good point when you say that rap is generally less tonal. Most rappers (in fact pretty much all, with a few exceptions) do talk moreso than sing. Rappers don't sing, they rap. However, skill is still involved, but its not the same kind of skill that singing takes. Its based more on a rappers ability to create a distinctive sound for himself through the flow of the vocals, and also his ability to write lyrics. For example, Eminem. I don't like Eminem. His lyrics are bad and his music is even worse, but the one thing he has is a distinctive rapping style, largely based on the heavy usage of assonance.

 

You are obviously a person who places a lot of value on the sound of music. The interplay of rythm and melody. And thats fine. Thats your preference. But I view music as art, just like painting. Thats not to say that I don't find rap pleasing on a sonic level as well, but ultimately it's all about expression, which is why I hate mainstream rap just as much you. It's all image, as you pointed out. But there is some rap, none of which gets airplay as far as I know, although I don't listen to the radio, that is concerned with a message and with creating something new and interesting, not just repackaging the same shit that was in the number 1 spot last week.

I understand.

 

You don't think rock or alternative music comes line-by-line as well as in a structured format? I don't see the difference, very clearly anyways.

[pennies]

sorry can't say that i do. but i think it's cool that you like matthew good and are into rap, because well that's pretty rare. they're very different sounds one possibly much better than the other.

[mikebutt]

You don't think rock or alternative music comes line-by-line as well as in a structured format?

 

I think rock lyrics come line by line in a structured format. Notice how in say, a Matt Good song there is a pause between lines, whereas in rap its always flowing. Of course, I mean that generally. There are exceptions in rock and alternative as well as there are rappers who attempt excercise tonality in their rap.

[Maverick]

Yes, I can see how that is a bit of a generalization. I hear rap all the time that is split up into several versus that are bridged by syntesizers or dance renditions, etc.

 

At the same time, I am quite familiar with alternative and rock compositions that are structured in a very line-to-line format.

 

It just seems that both rap and alternative/rock are structured somewhat similarily. There are the versus and of course a chorus. I am no expert, of course. So, I could be wrong.

[Dan #2]

Both rap and rock, along with pop, evolved from jazz and blues.

[Ravenous megin-sane]

i like rap.

[Rebabaluba]

Some rap music is ok. The ones like k-os are great, they're a breath of fresh air from the others like fidy and G-Unit. What the hell is G-Unit? Damn I hate them!