Not All Deaths Are The Same...

[Moonlight_Graham]

i was responding mostly to Juanpe's first post.

 

and i agree about the U.S. white vs. minority inner-city media coverage bias.

[supercanuk]

Oh okay, my bad, i just assumed since you quoted me etc.

[ecnarf]

Here is a chart about media coverage from Jon Stewart's America (the Book). It's about trials and determining how much coverage a trial should get.

 

Defendant:

 

A-list celebrity ... 100 points

B-list celebrity ... 60 points

Z-list celebrity ... 75 points

Athlete ... 80 points

Ex-athlete ... 75 points

Clergy ... 50 points

Crazed / disgruntled loner ... 25 points

Crazed / disgruntled loner (cannibal) ... 45 points

Journalist ... - 20 points

Non-famous person ... 1 point

 

Nature of Crime

 

Sexual (unspeakable acts) ... 100 points

Sexual (speakable acts) ... 60 points

Sexual (clergy related) ... 80 points

Murder ... 75 points

Assault / biting ... 50 points

Kidnapping ... 65 points

Kidnapping (involving son of famed aviator) ... 95 points

Shoplifting ... 35 points

Shoplifting (clergy related) 36 points

Drugs / alcohol ... 15 points

White collar ... 3 points

 

There's also a a formula for the coverage of a kidnapping:

y = family income x (abductee cuteness / skin colour)^2 + length of abduction x media savvy griving parents^3

(y = minutes of coverage)

 

Relatives story values:

renegade oose in backyard < septuplets! < renegade truck on fire < ocnjoined babies < new disease outbreak (Africa < rest of world) < war! < disgruntled man with gun < baby briefly imperiled by celebrity

 

Body Count Conversion rate

 

2,000 massacred Congolese = 500 drowned Bangladeshis = 45 fire-bombed Iraqis = 12 car-bombed Europeans = 1 snipered American

 

I know that it's satire, but it's sadly very true.

 

Overall, I think the reasoning for giving more attention to Western people getting killed compared to Iraqis being killed is that when Westerners are being killed, it is by people that are "different", usually because they are immigrants, dark-skinned and Muslim. Ergo, the murderers are essentially foreign. But when Iraqis are being killed, they're either being killed by their "fellow" brown-skinned Muslims (whether or not they're Arab or whether or not they're Iraqi), or they're being killed by the military. So, to the stereotypical jingoistic Americano, it's not as bad.

 

I'm not trying to justify it, but it sadly exists.

[juanpe]

We can't have a moment of silence for everyone who dies because we'd be standing around forever. But for London'ers, the terrorist attacks was a special tragedy...much different than a neighbour dying of cancer.

 

How much people care about someone else dying i think just depends on how personally it affects them, how aware they are of the deaths (media etc.), and how tragic the circumstances.

yeah, I agree that we can't have a moment of silence for everyone who dies because unfortunately we would be forever in silence for all the deaths that take place every single day on our planet... but it is curious to see (not from your post, of course) how much more importance it is given to such a tragedy (which in fact is) as the one in London, but there is less (or no) importance given for such a tragedy as the one which is taking place every day, in this case, in Iraq, or all the dead kids who are dying in Africa...

 

And I do believe that in order to have a better world everybody should care about other people dying in tragic ways, specially if we the first world are the main cause of those deaths.

 

I am convinced that if more people from the first world really cared about people suffering in other parts of the world, things would be easily solved (I know, before any of you says that, I know it is just a utopia...)

[Moonlight_Graham]

Juanpe, it is a sad reality that we don't really care about the lesser-known tragedies in this world. But its all about what affects us the most. The bombings in London affects people in Europe and North America etc. because the same thing can happen in our countries (as you very well know). Same with U.S. soliders dying in Iraq and it being report on CNN 24/7 while greater tragedies slip into the back pages of the newspaper. News that affects us will be more reported by the media, and the media usually on reports things that WE care about (media wants ratings and to sell papers too).

 

AIDS, poverty, and genocide in Africa doesn't affect us personally very much if any, so its sort of unfortunately in our nature to ignore this stuff. The film "Bowling for Columbine" exists, but "Bowling for Rwanda" does not. Human nature i guess.

 

The only way to fight this is for people to educate themselves on what's really happening in the world, and at the same time make awareness for lesser known tragedies. Things like Live 8 is a great thing, IMO. Most people won't read page 12 in their local newspaper, but they'll listen to what Bono has to say. Its stupid, but its reality.

[juanpe]

totally agree with you, moonlight_graham

 

it is just that sometimes i feel so "desperate" and "useless" not to be able to do more things than the ones I do in order to make people aware of all these acts of injustice in the world... but as I said before it is just a utopia... which is not gonna stop me from keeping on helping those most in need, though

[Moonlight_Graham]

I don't think the possibility of ending world hunger/poverty, genocide, and other tragedies in this world is unrealistic or utopic at all. It is a dream, but something that is achievable. There will always be some poverty and violence, but with enough money, effort, and international co-operation we can get rid of most of it.

 

Ask anyone in the 1700's if humans will ever fly to the moon and they'd say you're a freak.

 

p.s. Just wondering what types of things to you do personally to help the injustices in the world?

[juanpe]

well, i'm actually actively working in a spanish association called "Pobreza cerO" (Poverty Zero, there is something similar in other countries), trying to erradicate poverty in the world with campaigns, actions, and things like that...

 

and then i help a social group (a group with other social left groups and left political parties) in Madrid with help to the most in need (homeless, poor families) and i basically help them with education (I teach them how to write and read, i help them with ordinary daily activities they dont know how to do...)... things like that

 

and of course very concerned with possible injustices in my country and in the rest of the world with other actions (always social or political), oriented to make people concious of the problem we have in the first world with our selfinesh towards the others

 

i try to combine all this with my work, i cant concentrate on other things as much as I would like but I try to do my best

[mikebutt]

The film "Bowling for Columbine" exists, but "Bowling for Rwanda" does not. Human nature i guess.

 

But there is a documentary based on Romeo Dallaires book, "Shake Hands with the Devil" that gos by the same name. Not taking away from MGs point though. Its true that there won't be a sensationalized, big budget documentary for Rwanda, but you should watch shwtd if you get the chance.

[Moonlight_Graham]

The film "Bowling for Columbine" exists, but "Bowling for Rwanda" does not. Human nature i guess.

 

But there is a documentary based on Romeo Dallaires book, "Shake Hands with the Devil" that gos by the same name. Not taking away from MGs point though. Its true that there won't be a sensationalized, big budget documentary for Rwanda, but you should watch shwtd if you get the chance.

sounds interesting, i'll keep an eye out. I'll correct myself: maybe some Rwanda documentaries exist, its just that few people know about them.

 

Even though the guy is a pretty slanted filmmaker, it woould be cool if Michael Moore did a documentary on some lesser known global issues, rather than just always focusing on U.S. problems. People would watch his stuff no matter what, so it would bring awareness. Moore has a ton of power when you think about it.

 

BTW Juanpe, thats awesome you do all those things. I wish i did more, and probably will do more and more as i get older. I guess it takes a lot more than just "giving money" to make a difference.

Edited July 21, 2005 by Moonlight_Graham

[ecnarf]

The film "Bowling for Columbine" exists, but "Bowling for Rwanda" does not. Human nature i guess.

 

But there is a documentary based on Romeo Dallaires book, "Shake Hands with the Devil" that gos by the same name. Not taking away from MGs point though. Its true that there won't be a sensationalized, big budget documentary for Rwanda, but you should watch shwtd if you get the chance.

I'm waiting for shake hands with the devil to come in from the library. In book form, that is.

[aloha_joe]

I have seen SHWTD, and read the book. Both are extremely powerful. The problem, however, is that they'll hardly see the light of day in the US, and likely Europe also; the main reason for it's existance is the national presence of Dallaire in Canada.

 

For instance, in Belgium, the Rwandan affair was not only downplayed by the government, but Dallaire was publicly blamed for the death of their peacekeepers. At the same time, Dallaire has very little to say that's complimentary of the United States. This does not mean that he should soften his message; it just makes it less likely to be widely screened in the states....

 

See no evil, hear no evil, believe no evil.

[ecnarf]

I have seen SHWTD, and read the book. Both are extremely powerful. The problem, however, is that they'll hardly see the light of day in the US, and likely Europe also; the main reason for it's existance is the national presence of Dallaire in Canada.

 

For instance, in Belgium, the Rwandan affair was not only downplayed by the government, but Dallaire was publicly blamed for the death of their peacekeepers. At the same time, Dallaire has very little to say that's complimentary of the United States. This does not mean that he should soften his message; it just makes it less likely to be widely screened in the states....

 

See no evil, hear no evil, believe no evil.

Right on.

[calm2chaos]

Hey, I think we scared off Mr. "easiest solution is to NOT break the law." hehe. excellent.

 

 

 

Cool - I always hear good things about soc at UofT...not that York or Brock aren't good, it's just that UofT gets press and all their grads have huge mouths on them ;)

 

p.s. sorry to any small-mouthed UofT grads, but you know you had it coming. : B)

I'm still here, was just trying to figure out how to blame everyone but the criminal... AAAAA must be nice

[aloha_joe]

Hey, sure - keep blaming the individual. It will solve everything, I'm sure.

 

The problem with blaming the criminal for crime is no different for blaming the terrorist for terror: yes, it is true that the immediate culprit IS immediately responsible for their actions BUT the overall problem won't be solved unless the underlying "root" reason(s) for their being a motivated culprit is solved.

[supercanuk]

Hey, sure - keep blaming the individual. It will solve everything, I'm sure.

 

The problem with blaming the criminal for crime is no different for blaming the terrorist for terror: yes, it is true that the immediate culprit IS immediately responsible for their actions BUT the overall problem won't be solved unless the underlying "root" reason(s) for their being a motivated culprit is solved.

lol yah he must be an existentialist, there is no possible way that what society has offered these individuals has any correlation to what they have become. Hell, people should live in poverty and damn well love it. Work hard everyday to get nowhere and still kiss the ass of the cop arresting you on countless occasions for driving while black. The U.S. should be able to dance around the globe like an elephant in a glass shop and we should all help to wipe its ass. I'm a bit bitter this morning lol.

- hehe, i guess all us "damn liberals" must be getting on his nerves.

 

-calm2chaos: tell Ann Coulter I say whats up.

Edited July 22, 2005 by supercanuk

[Moonlight_Graham]

Hey, sure - keep blaming the individual. It will solve everything, I'm sure.

 

The problem with blaming the criminal for crime is no different for blaming the terrorist for terror: yes, it is true that the immediate culprit IS immediately responsible for their actions BUT the overall problem won't be solved unless the underlying "root" reason(s) for their being a motivated culprit is solved.

Everyone is responsible for their actions. Humans are conscious creatures who, unless medically mentally ill, have control of their actions and know right from wrong in most cases.

 

Just because your father beat you as a kid doesn't give you any excuse for beating your wife. Criminals should go to jail obviously, but i also believe (like u) in trying to rehab some criminals because there is often an underlying psychological reason why they committed the act. Sometimes there isn't and people are just assholes, but sometimes there is.

[supercanuk]

well thats just it, people are also societal constructions, yes we have control over our actions, but you have to look at all the factors in peoples lives.

[calm2chaos]

It's always someone elses fault that I robbed a liquor store or shot an old man or raped an old woman. I have no doubt it was societies fault i deal drugs and extort money from them. Society was mean to me and didn't pat me on my back when I was growing up. So because society didn't treat me specialits ok if I break the law. Almost makes me want to cry

[aloha_joe]

Wow. You just don't get it. Yes, there is individual responsibility in ANY action, yes. BUT there are usually reasons behind those actions.

 

Why are some people good drivers? Well, it probably has a lot to do with who they learned to drive from, under what circumstances they learned to drive, and what type of drivers they have observed. It's NO different with the law. If you grow up seeing your law-abiding parents getting ahead, getting what they need and want, then fine. BUT, if you grow up seeing your law-abiding parents getting the shaft and ALSO seeing drug dealers driving fancy cars, wearing fancy clothes, etc. etc., then that's going to leave you with a different impression of how to get ahead.

 

Now let us think for a minute - what sort of people were society and it's law designed by and for? "Well Bob, I'd generally have to say that most laws are made by rich white men, for rich white men" - how else can you explain that an example of corporate fraud, in which hundreds or thousands of people lose thousands of dollars is punished by a slap on the wrist of maybe 5 years in prison, yet at the same time, robbing a convenience store for a few hundred bucks can get 10 or 20 years? Hmm....think on it for a while.

[supercanuk]

Wow. You just don't get it. Yes, there is individual responsibility in ANY action, yes. BUT there are usually reasons behind those actions.

 

Why are some people good drivers? Well, it probably has a lot to do with who they learned to drive from, under what circumstances they learned to drive, and what type of drivers they have observed. It's NO different with the law. If you grow up seeing your law-abiding parents getting ahead, getting what they need and want, then fine. BUT, if you grow up seeing your law-abiding parents getting the shaft and ALSO seeing drug dealers driving fancy cars, wearing fancy clothes, etc. etc., then that's going to leave you with a different impression of how to get ahead.

 

Now let us think for a minute - what sort of people were society and it's law designed by and for? "Well Bob, I'd generally have to say that most laws are made by rich white men, for rich white men" - how else can you explain that an example of corporate fraud, in which hundreds or thousands of people lose thousands of dollars is punished by a slap on the wrist of maybe 5 years in prison, yet at the same time, robbing a convenience store for a few hundred bucks can get 10 or 20 years? Hmm....think on it for a while.

Exactly, if one study's the law, its drawn in the favor of rich white folks. The system is inherently racist as well, its fundamentally wrong in a lot of ways in terms of "justice". You can't blame the oppressed for doing what they must just to get by, and then ignore or downplay even worse crimes committed by corporate America. This is also true for Canada as well, i mean these corporations have committed homicide through what they produce and many other ways, tax fraud, stealing, etc, what makes there crimes less heinous then a man stealing from a local liquor store or wallet etc? One is paid and bought to be covered up and downplayed, the other is blown up for the six' o'clock news to immediately paint that certain person and usually the persons ethnicity in a horrible light without looking at all the factors. In a society that prides itself on equality which is of course laughable, this is not very equal. Despite popular belief our society is NOT a meritocracy, and the sooner you understand that, the sooner you may understand and put yourself in the shoes of the other.

 

 

Okay- i just found these words from Chairman Omali Yeshitela and felt it was relevant:

I'm not a hunter but i am told,

that, uh, in places like in the arctic,

where indiginous people sometimes might, might, hunt a wolf,

they'll take a double edged blade,

and they'll put blood on the blade,

and they'll melt the ice and stick the handle in the ice,

so that only the blade is protruding,

and that a wolf will smell the blood and wants to eat,

and it will come and lick the blade trying to eat,

and what happens is when the wolf licks the blade,

of course, he cuts his tongue, and he bleeds,

and he thinks he's really having a good thing,

and he drinks and he licks and he licks,

and of course he is drinking his own blood and he kills himself,

thats what the Imperialists did with us with crack cocaine,

you have these young brothers out there who think they are getting something

they gonna make a living with,

they is getting something they can buy a car,

like the white people have cars, why can't i have a car?

they getting something they can get a piece of gold,

white people have gold, why can't i have gold?

they getting something to get a house,

white people have a house, why can't i have a house?

and they actually think that theres something thats bringing resources to them,

but they're killing themsleves just like the wolf was licking the blade,

and they're slowly dying without knowing it.

thats whats happening to the community, you with me on that?

thats exactly, precisely what happens to the community,

and instead of blaming the hunter who put the damn handle and blade in the ice

for the wolf,

that what happens is the wolf gets the blame, gets the blame for trying to live,

thats what happens in our community,

you don't blame the person, the victim,

you blame the oppressor, Imperialism, white power is the enemy,

was the enemy when it first came to Africa,

and snatched up the first African brothers here against our will,

isss the enemy today,

and thats the thing that we have to understand.

Edited July 25, 2005 by supercanuk

[ecnarf]

It's always someone elses fault that I robbed a liquor store or shot an old man or raped an old woman. I have no doubt it was societies fault i deal drugs and extort money from them. Society was mean to me and didn't pat me on my back when I was growing up. So because society didn't treat me specialits ok if I break the law. Almost makes me want to cry

Uhh... raping old women? That's pushing it.