Matt's New Stuff Is Far Too Underated

[sebster]

I think his best has to be Audio of Being. I think it's because it's such a healthy mix of his MGB stuff and his newer stuff. I like Avalanche, although I can't listen to it all that much before getting a bit bored. Of all his new material, the rooms songs are by far my favorite. I think that was absolutely amazing. If what's to come from him will be more like that, I'll be a very happy camper.

[Seanathon]

I must say I'm surprised at the amount of Avalanche hate. Then again, I've never been on board with the overwhelming BM love, so who knows. As usual with music, it's a matter of taste.

[borntohula]

to me, avalanche is the last in a three-part opus, beginning with beautiful midnight of course. the stuff that preceeded BM has hints of brilliance but isn't so consistent or well-written for that matter. he was of course recognized early on for his talents, but i think beautiful midnight really kicked it up a notch (thanks emeril).

thematically the three albums im discussing haven't much in common, so i'm sortof pulling this out of my ass, but i just feel this way because everything before BM was so-so and everything after avalanche thus far, has been a sort of back to basics approach... which could've worked really well had WLRRR not been such a throwaway record. don't get me wrong, it's good. but i think the b-sides ("cant get shot", "dusk") were better than "buffalo seven" for example. it had some strong songs and yeah yeah all he wanted to do was have an album to play live, but i dont consider it great by any means. i think the new material might be a return to greatness.

[no yu begin wher i end]

A) Matt's musicianship on the new stuff is better (esp Avalanche)

That was actually one of the first things that got my attention when I bought WLR&RR. The musical abilities seem to have been kicked up a notch for that record, not so much for Avalanche like you said.

[pleasurableheadache]

Avalanche is my least favourite Matty CD.

 

I actuallt find it one of his worst ones lyrically. Look at the structure of a lot of the songs, like Pledge, Bright End of Nowhere and Long Way Down.

 

He basically just repeats the same verse but changes a few words. It makes the songs feel very repetitive to me, and he's continued this trend a couple times on WLRARR as well.

 

Here's an example in case you don't know what I'm talking about. On Bright End of Nowhere (which is probably my favourie song on that CD, but it illustrates the point very well):

 

Here's the bright end of nowhere

Here's the results of all our days

Used to lay on the roof and drink beer

And try and count up all the ways

That you could waste away

Looking back it seemed so simple

But having done it I couldn't say

.

.

Chorus

.

.

So here's the bright end of nowhere

Here's the commercial of all our days

Go on vacation and drink beer

And try and forget all the ways

We let ourselves get away

Looking back it seemed so simple

But having done it

It's not the same

 

It's things like this that give the songs a 'double chorus' feel. It's like, verse-->chorus-->repeat verse but change a word or two-->repeat chorus call it a song. I just wasn't huge on that.

Its fine if you don't like it, but I myself don't see the relevance to your arguement. Why are the verse similar? Because that's the intention, they are meant to work off of each other to get the point across, it's a very good songwriting tool. Great lyricists, be it Bob Dylan, Gord Downie or even John K, seem to find a better way to say things in fewer words as their work progresses, choosing to use less words and words with more impact to get their point across, which I think is the mark of a great writer. Someone can make each verse and/or chorus sound completely different and still write completely useless lyrics, turn on your radio right now and you'll equate with what I'm talking about. Its not about how many words he does or doesn't change, but which words he changes.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's fair to say that the reason most of us are on this bored is because of Matt's lyrics, expecially those in songs like Pledge, which I would say sheds light on how he felt after the band fell apart, maybe it's just that as a writer I appreciate them more, dunno.

 

Discussion = good

Amen driftinginfluence Amen!

[tightbunns]

Avalanche was perhaps the best cd i've ever heard. I'm sorry he shied away from the big production techniques he used. Too expensive and time consuming i guess.

[MarketTomato]

Or, Matt wanted WLRRR the way it was. It wasn't necessarily too expensive or anything, he just wanted to make a really raw, stripped down record.

Edit: Avalanche is an incredibly strong record, but I don't find it as consistent as Audio of Being. Both Audio of Being and Avalanche have incredible depth, but a couple songs on Avalanche didn't have to be there. Therefore, I choose Audio of Being. (And pikachu)

Edited November 9, 2005 by MarketTomato

[c0micb0y]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

[Shortcut To Moncton]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?

[driftinginfluence]

agreed > WLRRR is an awesome record, We're So Heavy, Blue Skies, Its Been Awhile, ASR, wicked fucking album plus it's different, he goes everywhere, from straight up who-style rock to alt country to relevant political commentary, its underrated. I think people have to realize Matt doesn't seem to write as many songs concerning "the self" as he used to, he's moved on somewhat, they are still there but there is a whole bunch of other subject matter as well, which is cool.

[c0micb0y]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?

No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts.

For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album.

MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.'

[driftinginfluence]

For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album.

MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.'

that is one of the best lyrical phrases he ever wrote, so good, I agree with that part.

[Shortcut To Moncton]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?

No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts.

For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album.

MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.'

Musically dumbed down as opposed to lyrically dumbed down is what I meant.

[driftinginfluence]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?

No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts.

For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album.

MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.'

Musically dumbed down as opposed to lyrically dumbed down is what I meant.

you cannot honestly say that Blue Skies Over Badlands or Empty Road or We're So Heavy are dumbed-down, i wonder if the correct term your lookign for is rawness, if thats the case, yes the album is raw, if not, i'm not sure how you eqaute that record record with being dumbed down. Please explain.

[Shortcut To Moncton]

Why so much WLRRR hate? It was a natural progression from Avalanche, a big deep breath with precise, inspired comment. I couldn't have asked for a better album. That one-two punch at the start, rolling straight into We're So Heavy... I can't really encapsulate the impact of this album with words-- I'm just in awe every time i listen to it. It's rare when an album can inspire every.single.time it's listened to.

 

'hey, i've lost too many years to this

i walk behind the crowd

and pick up the garbage that was our future

without memory

that made the children of the system we created

and then forgave...'

 

at least he didn't go Metric-style and dumb it all down.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?

No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts.

For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album.

MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.'

Musically dumbed down as opposed to lyrically dumbed down is what I meant.

you cannot honestly say that Blue Skies Over Badlands or Empty Road or We're So Heavy are dumbed-down, i wonder if the correct term your lookign for is rawness, if thats the case, yes the album is raw, if not, i'm not sure how you eqaute that record record with being dumbed down. Please explain.

There is nothing "raw" about White Light. When I think of raw, I look at the album EVOL by Sonic Youth.

 

Let me guess, Empty Road isn't dumbed down because Matt Good used a slide guitar??

Blue Skies and We're So Heavy are pretty much the only noteworthy songs on the entire album but there was nothing groundbreaking about either one of them

 

Dumbed-down and raw are completely different.

 

Raw = Endless feedback without aiming for a melodic structure.

 

Dumbed-down = Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience.

[mrs jesus]

if wlrrr isn't dumbed down, then how come no one really mentions anything from it other than we're so heavy, empty road, and blue skies?

[driftinginfluence]

There is nothing "raw" about White Light. When I think of raw, I look at the album EVOL by Sonic Youth.

 

Let me guess, Empty Road isn't dumbed down because Matt Good used a slide guitar??

Blue Skies and We're So Heavy are pretty much the only noteworthy songs on the entire album but there was nothing groundbreaking about either one of them

 

Dumbed-down and raw are completely different.

 

Raw = Endless feedback without aiming for a melodic structure.

 

Dumbed-down = Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience.

Hey smart guy, learn something about music then get an informed opinion.

 

Raw has nothing to do with a lack of melodic structure. Raw mean to be farily unproduced, being the album was recorded for the majority live off the floor, i would say calling it raw is a fair statement. Just recording feedback does not define something as being raw, it defines it as not being music. Melodic structure is the essence of music. I love feedbeck and I think it adds lots to a song or record, but anyone can make their guitar feedback and its not something Sonic Youth discovered by any means. Melody is what makes music music. All songs have melodic structure, thats what makes them songs. And I don't recall saying WLRRR was groundbreaking. Empty Road isn't dumbed down because the lyrics,have you even heard the song? Cause your talking out of your ass, you don't seem to be a fan of facts and proof.And if your "Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience" the last thing your gonna do is write a song like Empty Road or Blue Skies or Alert Status Red. Just because songs like Put Out Your Lights and Poor Man's Grey are structured in the more rock vain, doesn't mean they can't say something or be good or uncommercial. Remember what songs were singles on that record. Matt had his biggest commercial success with time bomb and load me up and such, why didn't he write songs like those and release them as singles if he wanted the album to be more commercial? Let me know I'm dying to hear what genius insight you've come up with.

[Shortcut To Moncton]

There is nothing "raw" about White Light. When I think of raw, I look at the album EVOL by Sonic Youth.

 

Let me guess, Empty Road isn't dumbed down because Matt Good used a slide guitar??

Blue Skies and We're So Heavy are pretty much the only noteworthy songs on the entire album but there was nothing groundbreaking about either one of them

 

Dumbed-down and raw are completely different.

 

Raw = Endless feedback without aiming for a melodic structure.

 

Dumbed-down = Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience.

Hey smart guy, learn something about music then get an informed opinion.

 

Raw has nothing to do with a lack of melodic structure. Raw mean to be farily unproduced, being the album was recorded for the majority live off the floor, i would say calling it raw is a fair statement. Just recording feedback does not define something as being raw, it defines it as not being music. Melodic structure is the essence of music. I love feedbeck and I think it adds lots to a song or record, but anyone can make their guitar feedback and its not something Sonic Youth discovered by any means. Melody is what makes music music. All songs have melodic structure, thats what makes them songs. And I don't recall saying WLRRR was groundbreaking. Empty Road isn't dumbed down because the lyrics,have you even heard the song? Cause your talking out of your ass, you don't seem to be a fan of facts and proof.And if your "Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience" the last thing your gonna do is write a song like Empty Road or Blue Skies or Alert Status Red. Just because songs like Put Out Your Lights and Poor Man's Grey are structured in the more rock vain, doesn't mean they can't say something or be good or uncommercial. Remember what songs were singles on that record. Matt had his biggest commercial success with time bomb and load me up and such, why didn't he write songs like those and release them as singles if he wanted the album to be more commercial? Let me know I'm dying to hear what genius insight you've come up with.

Being "raw" meaning fairly unproduced, mainly for the "live off the floor" is complete bologna. Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction. It isn't the most enjoyable album to listen to so its best to crank it up during shows to reach his demographically accessible audience but they won't know the difference.

 

They'll blindly agree and think, "Hey, these songs are less technical and aim of the minimalistic approach, these songs are so raw & live off the floor, that's why he plays them and I agree 100%. North American For Life!".

 

I never said that Sonic Youth discovered the raw sound but they sure hell make a better representation of it rather than any Matt Good release, esp. White Light. This isn't even a part of the argument but I'll still ask, who "discovered" the rawness in modern rock then?

 

Melodic structure isn't the essence of music. Have you heard any of the brilliant albums written by Mike Patton? He follows absolutely no standard melodic structures and it's fantastic.

 

Here you go again, supporting Empty Road because of the lyrics. Well I have not once spoken about the lyrics, just about the music...and Empty Road falls short of being innovating or whatever the hell you are trying to make it.

How the hell is Alert Status Red not a simplified song to gain a more accessible audience? Answer that one for me, I'm dying to know. Just because something is structed and "more rock vain" doesn't mean that it can't be good. I never said that once. I think White Light is a good cd but it is by far means a "raw" album that made progression from Avalanche.

 

He didn't write songs like Time Bomb and Load Me Up anymore because Matt Good has moved away from that edgy sound. He is more or less becoming a alternative-country musician and there is NOTHING raw about that. And don't try to tell me that alt-country is not an accessible genre; it sticks to the basics and aims for an older mid 20s-late 30s demographic that wouldn't be offended by any means of it.

 

Your turn, smart guy.

 

[i made a few grammatical errors and I fixed those up. I didn't edit anything else]

Edited November 10, 2005 by Shortcut To Moncton

[driftinginfluence]

Being "raw" meaning fairly unproduced, mainly for the "live off the floor" is complete bologna. Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction. It isn't the most enjoyable album to listen to so its best to crank it up during shows to reach his demographically accessible audience but they won't know the difference.

 

They'll blindly agree and think, "Hey, these songs are less technical and aim of the minimalistic approach, these songs are so raw & live off the floor, that's why he plays them and I agree 100%. North American For Life!".

 

I never said that Sonic Youth discovered the raw sound but they sure hell make a better representation of it rather than any Matt Good release, esp. White Light. This isn't even a part of the argument but I'll still ask, who "discovered" the rawness in modern rock then?

 

Melodic structure isn't the essence of music. Have you heard any of the brilliant albums written by Mike Patton? He follows absolutely no standard melodic structures and it's fantastic.

 

Here you go again, supporting Empty Road because of the lyrics. Well I have not once spoken about the lyrics, just about the music...and Empty Road falls short of being innovating or whatever the hell you are trying to make it.

How the hell is Alert Status Red not a simplified song to gain a more accessible audience? Answer that one for me, I'm dying to know. Just because someone is structed and "more rock vain" doesn't mean that it can't be good. I never said that once. I think White Light is a good cd but it is by far means a "raw" album that made progession from Avalanche.

 

He didn't write songs like Time Bomb and Load Me Up anymore because Matt Good has moved away from that edgy sound. He is more or less becoming a alternative-country musician and there is NOTHING raw about that. And don't try to tell me that alt-country is not an accessible genre; it sticks to the basics and aims for an older mid 20s-late 30s demographic that wouldn't be offended by any means of it.

 

Your turn, smart guy.

Can you verify this? > "Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction." I forgot you had a portal into his head that allowed you to know what he was thinking. I never said white light was better or more musically advanced than avalanche, I think avalanche is a much better album is those repects, I simple agreed with the fact that WLRRR was a good album and featured some excellent songs. As far as who discovered the raw sound in modern rock, to be quite honest i have no idea and don't think it's easily discernable. I have nothing against Sonic Youth, I personally think they were cast into that whole grunge scene unfairly and have continued farther than most bands of that time period becuase of their talent, I was just commenting that they didn't invent feedack. Being a musician, I understand the difficulty in recording an album live off the floor these days and so i respect WLRRR. Sure there are some songs I wonder why he put them on it (NAFL) is a perfect example. But I also come from a school that values lyrics much more than song structure. Lots of bands change their sound but not what they say, Matt has done both and I respect him for that. I also stated that melody was the foundation of music not structure. Everything every put to tape has a melody of some sort that's what music is. I love stuff that has a lack of usual structure, songs off of Radiohead's Kid A and Amnesiac as well as later Talk Talk albums and Sigur Ros. But to just record feedback and say it is somehow revolutionary and groundbreaking is somewhat of an overstatement. Music consists of lyrics and instrumentation, not just the latter. Alert Status Red is not your most straightforward song when it comes to lyrical content, if he wanted to follow that vein he would have taken a Green Day aprroach and written a song like Wake Me Up When September Ends, which is fairly obvious in its message. Matt songs have become less accessible as his career has continued, record sales support this. I never stated that Matt Good was the figurehead of raw music, my basic point was that WLRRR was a departure from previous work and was an excellent record and better than most music out there. The fact that he has "moved away from that edgy sound" illustrates my point perfectly, he is evolving, that edgy sound is all over the radio and it sells, he is seemingly trying to move away from that, which I think is progress. Again your pigeonholing genres, Wilco is considered altcountry and there is nothing commercial about them, thay have played with song structure more than most bands, listen to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or A Ghost Is Born and you'll get my drift.

 

At this point if you feel you really have anythign relevant to say, please continue. I think I have proved my point.

Cheers.

Edited November 10, 2005 by driftinginfluence

[Shortcut To Moncton]

Being "raw" meaning fairly unproduced, mainly for the "live off the floor" is complete bologna. Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction. It isn't the most enjoyable album to listen to so its best to crank it up during shows to reach his demographically accessible audience but they won't know the difference.

 

They'll blindly agree and think, "Hey, these songs are less technical and aim of the minimalistic approach, these songs are so raw & live off the floor, that's why he plays them and I agree 100%. North American For Life!".

 

I never said that Sonic Youth discovered the raw sound but they sure hell make a better representation of it rather than any Matt Good release, esp. White Light. This isn't even a part of the argument but I'll still ask, who "discovered" the rawness in modern rock then?

 

Melodic structure isn't the essence of music. Have you heard any of the brilliant albums written by Mike Patton? He follows absolutely no standard melodic structures and it's fantastic.

 

Here you go again, supporting Empty Road because of the lyrics. Well I have not once spoken about the lyrics, just about the music...and Empty Road falls short of being innovating or whatever the hell you are trying to make it.

How the hell is Alert Status Red not a simplified song to gain a more accessible audience? Answer that one for me, I'm dying to know. Just because someone is structed and "more rock vain" doesn't mean that it can't be good. I never said that once. I think White Light is a good cd but it is by far means a "raw" album that made progession from Avalanche.

 

He didn't write songs like Time Bomb and Load Me Up anymore because Matt Good has moved away from that edgy sound. He is more or less becoming a alternative-country musician and there is NOTHING raw about that. And don't try to tell me that alt-country is not an accessible genre; it sticks to the basics and aims for an older mid 20s-late 30s demographic that wouldn't be offended by any means of it.

 

Your turn, smart guy.

Can you verify this? > "Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction." I forgot you had a portal into his head that allowed you to know what he was thinking. I never said white light was better or more musically advanced than avalanche, I think avalanche is a much better album is those repects, I simple agreed with the fact that WLRRR was a good album and featured some excellent songs. As far as who discovered the raw sound in modern rock, to be quite honest i have no idea and don't think it's easily discernable. I have nothing against Sonic Youth, I personally think they were cast into that whole grunge scene unfairly and have continued farther than most bands of that time period becuase of their talent, I was just commenting that they didn't invent feedack. Being a musician, I understand the difficulty in recording an album live off the floor these days and so i respect WLRRR. Sure there are some songs I wonder why he put them on it (NAFL) is a perfect example. But I also come from a school that values lyrics much more than song structure. Lots of bands change their sound but not what they say, Matt has done both and I respect him for that. I also stated that melody was the foundation of music not structure. Everything every put to tape has a melody of some sort that's what music is. I love stuff that has a lack of usual structure, songs off of Radiohead's Kid A and Amnesiac as well as later Talk Talk albums and Sigur Ros. But to just record feedback and say it is somehow revolutionary and groundbreaking is somewhat of an overstatement. Music consists of lyrics and instrumentation, not just the latter. Alert Status Red is not your most straightforward song when it comes to lyrical content, if he wanted to follow that vein he would have taken a Green Day aprroach and written a song like Wake Me Up When September Ends, which is fairly obvious in its message. Matt songs have become less accessible as his career has continued, record sales support this. I never stated that Matt Good was the figurehead of raw music, my basic point was that WLRRR was a departure from previous work and was an excellent record and better than most music out there. The fact that he has "moved away from that edgy sound" illustrates my point perfectly, he is evolving, that edgy sound is all over the radio and it sells, he is seemingly trying to move away from that, which I think is progress. Again your pigeonholing genres, Wilco is considered altcountry and there is nothing commercial about them, thay have played with song structure more than most bands, listen to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or A Ghost Is Born and you'll get my drift.

 

At this point if you feel you really have anythign relevant to say, please continue. I think I have proved my point.

Cheers.

This is far from over.

 

Anyway, for my verficiation, all I meant was Matt Good was trying to avoid any criticism surrounding the change of the album; obviously I can't read the man's mind.

 

Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound. I, for one, am not a supporter of this as downgrading and simplyfing (yes, simplyfing) the music to only attempt to recreate the foundations of past rock & roll acts is a far cry of being anything noteworthy or special.

 

Your comments on lyrics having more importance over the music is very subjective and it's tough to argue something like that. So if a group made an album that was incredibly weak musically but arguably the strongest lyrical material in their discography, would you consider it their strongest effort?

 

Yes, song structures are different from melodies and yes, everything in some shape or form has a melody. This I did not deny. I never said recording feedback was revolutionary but rather it being the true "raw" approach onto things.

 

Alert Status Red IS your straight-forward song musically & lyrically. Now obviously it isn't going to be as cliched as the aforementioned Green Day song but it still follows the current libertarian/socialist beliefs against elitist corporations munipulating underprivileged cultures and societies. There are plenty of songs like that and Matt Good isn't being original at all but he did state strong points that have to be noted.

 

Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint. Coming from the age of the Internet, you should know for yourself that ALL RECORD SALES have dropped dramatically since the early 00s and it has progressed even worse come right now. The only artists who still sell records are those who are all over the media spotlight being media & television; Green Day are a fine example. But just because record sales have dropped does not mean that they're less accessible. Matthew Good obviously isn't the cool thing right now and even if he stripped out another Hello Time Bomb, record sales would not make a difference in the mere slightest.

 

That edgy sound from the past is NOT all over the radio right now. The current trend since 2003 is to be independent and have a lo-fi, underproduced sound. Tell me why Modest Mouse have become so popular all of a sudden after making a great record over another? The OC Soundtracks (big time teen-based show) only features bands who attempt at the independent sound with NO edgyness or distortion. Turn on your radio right now; you aren't going to here as much Limp Bizkit, Staind, or Godsmack but rather Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand and The White Stripes. Those acts are the trend right now and Matt Good is (can we say subconsciously?) trying to coincide with the create trends in alternative music.

 

Wilco are a commericial group, as they had reasonable success through their entire career and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has been absolutely praised by critics; everywhere from Pitchfork to Allmusic.

 

 

[i have to go to class so if I don't respond to you, it doesn't mean that "I lost" but rather, I am away from the computer. And sorry I took so long to answer with this message, I was being distracted.]

Edited November 10, 2005 by Shortcut To Moncton

[Shortcut To Moncton]

Sorry, the server is being a pain in the ass right now.

Edited November 10, 2005 by Shortcut To Moncton

[driftinginfluence]

This is far from over.

 

Anyway, for my verficiation, all I meant was Matt Good was trying to avoid any criticism surrounding the change of the album; obviously I can't read the man's mind.

 

Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound. I, for one, am not a supporter of this as downgrading and simplyfing (yes, simplyfing) the music to only attempt to recreate the foundations of past rock & roll acts is a far cry of being anything noteworthy or special.

 

Your comments on lyrics having more importance over the music is very subjective and it's tough to argue something like that. So if a group made an album that was incredibly weak musically but arguably the strongest lyrical material in their discography, would you consider it their strongest effort?

 

Yes, song structures are different from melodies and yes, everything in some shape or form has a melody. This I did not deny. I never said recording feedback was revolutionary but rather it being the true "raw" approach onto things.

 

Alert Status Red IS your straight-forward song musically & lyrically. Now obviously it isn't going to be as cliched as the aforementioned Green Day song but it still follows the current libertarian/socialist beliefs against elitist corporations munipulating underprivileged cultures and societies. There are plenty of songs like that and Matt Good isn't being original at all but he did state strong points that have to be noted.

 

Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint. Coming from the age of the Internet, you should know for yourself that ALL RECORD SALES have dropped dramatically since the early 00s and it has progressed even worse come right now. The only artists who still sell records are those who are all over the media spotlight being media & television; Green Day are a fine example. But just because record sales have dropped does not mean that they're less accessible. Matthew Good obviously isn't the cool thing right now and even if he stripped out another Hello Time Bomb, record sales would not make a difference in the mere slightest.

 

That edgy sound from the past is NOT all over the radio right now. The current trend since 2003 is to be independent and have a lo-fi, underproduced sound. Tell me why Modest Mouse have become so popular all of a sudden after making a great record over another? The OC Soundtracks (big time teen-based show) only features bands who attempt at the independent sound with NO edgyness or distortion. Turn on your radio right now; you aren't going to here as much Limp Bizkit, Staind, or Godsmack but rather Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand and The White Stripes. Those acts are the trend right now and Matt Good is (can we say subconsciously?) trying to coincide with the create trends in alternative music.

 

Wilco are a commericial group, as they had reasonable success through their entire career and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has been absolutely praised by critics; everywhere from Pitchfork to Allmusic.

 

 

[i have to go to class so if I don't respond to you, it doesn't mean that "I lost" but rather, I am away from the computer. And sorry I took so long to answer with this message, I was being distracted.]

This isn't an arguement about someone winning or losing, for me anyways, its about stating your opinion, whatever that may be. If you think your winning, congratualtions, this is my last post regarding this because frankly there isn't much else to say.

 

You say that "Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound". Question #1 - are you are musician and could you play guitar and sing at the same time (he did this on some tracks) in a limited number of takes while every other artist records 500 takes and splices the best parts of each take together and throws Auto-Tune on their as well? If you haven't done this, then you don't know. It is way harder to get a polished sound doing it the old school way, multitrack recording is far too easy. The truth is that to do this live off the floor method successfully, you have to be tight as a band and be very talented. Matt said Avalanche was a tedious affair and the White Light sessions were getting back to just enjoying music. If your not a musician, you cannot understand this. You've also got to remember, Matt only started playing guitar when he was 20, and never played lead until Avalanche. He has a such a burden in terms of workload when he makes an record, he has little help, and he thrives this way, pulling out excellent work while doing all of the songwriting himself.

 

"obviously I can't read the man's mind", thank you thats what I wondered. No proof = lack of point.

 

Yes the idead that lyrics are more important is a subjective

one, one that I support, to an extent, I obviously meant that there are limits to this, you can't just be aan amazing poet and write the most intelligent words then throw a chord progression behind it, take what I said with a grain of salt.

 

Regardign feedback, I'm also positive Matt has it on every record he's ever made and is he then just follwing bands like Sonic Youth, hardly,its a great effect, everyone and their dog employs it, nothing more to say.

 

I don't care what you say, there is no strength in the argument that Alert Status Red is a straighforward song lyrically compared to that which is on the radio, far from it. As far as "libertarian/socialist beliefs" are concerned, they are not a new trend as you stated, look at history, they have been around for quite awhile, and the reason they are popular now is the same reason they have always been popular, people don't like to be exploited and enjoy social programs, there have been countless revolutions throughout history that exploit this, its nothing new and not somethign that is a bandwagon to be jumped upon. Again< i never stated that Matt Good was making musical history with WLRRR, i have repeatedly said, which you choose to ignore, that I just think its a great album, with excellent songs, and lyrics which are different from the majority of music on the radio.

 

I don't think that believing "Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint" at all. Like I said, he could have made a record much more commercial than WLRRR, but he didn't.

 

Wilco have had great success, but it hasn't been on the radio. Ask anyone who listens to the radio, are they ever on there? Not on any major radio stations thats for sure. And just because critics have hailed them, doesn't mean that the public likes them. They have not won any major awards and even lost in the running for the shortlist prize, so I don't see them as a commercial band. Selling records is not a problem anyway, nothing wrong with financial success, as long as you don't alter your art to achieve this, which you you seem to think Matt has done. And that's where I think your wrong.

 

Thats the end of that, you fail to make any points which have any proof,

[mrjones]

Matt Good is trying to coincide with the create trends in alternative music.

This, to me, is exactly what prompted an album like WLRRR. Bands like Jet and the White Stripes were huge at the time this album was being made and I think Matt, while sitting in the studio, created some bullshit excuse like using old recording techniques, when really he wanted to boost his success by becoming once again a "radio friendly artist". Now I'm not doubting the fact that he did use that raw style of recording, I think he had alterior motives.

 

He did throw in Blue Skies and a few others to let his fans know that he can still write like he used to but it looks like he just wanted to blast out some singles and go back into the limelight. I have no problem with all this, but its stupid to claim the fact that Put Out Your Lights doesn't sound like Matt doing his brand of Jet.

 

Obviously this backfired and his success continued its downward slump (relative to his previous work), so now it looks like he's got the idea for this new album that he'll be more obscure, such as, a band like Wolf Parade or Broken Social Scene or even the now popular Arcade Fire. Obviously he'll put his own spin on the music, stamp it with his own brand but I highly doubt he'll come up with anything revolutionary.

 

Yeah, and with the thread topic, I'm an MGB fan I feel Matt was better when he had an actual lead guitarist on board, his riffs now are pretty simplistic but there are some new songs that rival the older ones. I'm sure I'll still purchase his new album.

Edited November 11, 2005 by mrjones

[mrs jesus]

what the hell are you people even arguing about this for?

no one is gonna win because no one is right.

it's all about opinion and rarely can a person's opinions be changed. you're wasting your time and getting on my nerves.

[MarketTomato]

Yeah....that was a waste of about, 10 minutes of my precious time that I treasure so much on this board. But seriously though, I can't stand it when people argue like this and make essays of their posts when no one ends up right.

Edited November 11, 2005 by MarketTomato