America: Freedom To Fascism

[supercanuk]

This fifteen minute preview looks like this documentary could really deliver some interesting topics, enjoy.

Click here!

[Azalroth]

Surprised no one has commented on this yet...looks very interesting...I'll be looking for this in the future. Thanks supercanuk

[Bizud]

I didn't like the anti-tax angle they approached the problem from (and I'm an anarchist), but I'm not surprised that Americans would have such hostility towards their own federal government. People who use the term "fascist" are always accused of hyperbole but I think it's accurate.

[supercanuk]

Very true. What i dont like about this so far ( and this is only from a preview) is that they base there premise that America was at some point free, "freedom to facism" when we know the founding fathers only wanted democracy for land owning white males, it was hardly ever really "free". Of course relatively speaking, it was more free then say, Saudi Arabia, but you get my point.

Edit: it seems you and i have the similar political viewpoints, which is kind of nice, i thought i was the only anarchist here for a while.

Edited June 13, 2006 by supercanuk

[Azalroth]

Nah your not the only one supercanuck....I just enjoy the pay the government is giving me, other than that they can go straight to...hmmm guess they are already in hell.

 

What does it really mean to be free? There is no such thing as freedom, we are all caged to moral & ethical chains. We will never be able to do anything just cause we want to without facing some sort of consequence.

[garsk]

to start of the whole arguement with taxations i thought was kinda weird, i have never meet anyone who has enjoyed paying taxes even if they knew where it was going and if it was going to a good cause.

 

as for the whole "government spying on me with inplanted computer chips in my body and money", i dont think i have ever much to worry about since i am a white male age 18 to 35 and according to homer simpson, everyone listens to us, i dont think i will get "monitored" a lot. even if i do, i lead a very very very very boring life, i am sure if anyone was tracking me, they would kill themselfs out of boredom.

 

 

on final thought, and this one is about political doc's in general, why is it that when ever a documantary is using a clip of George Bush, why do they have to uses one where he look mentally dead? i mean, we all know he isnt the smartest person in the world, but still, do you really have to keep showing us? we get the point!

[supercanuk]

to start of the whole arguement with taxations i thought was kinda weird, i have never meet anyone who has enjoyed paying taxes even if they knew where it was going and if it was going to a good cause.

 

as for the whole "government spying on me with inplanted computer chips in my body and money", i dont think i have ever much to worry about since i am a white male age 18 to 35 and according to homer simpson, everyone listens to us, i dont think i will get "monitored" a lot. even if i do, i lead a very very very very boring life, i am sure if anyone was tracking me, they would kill themselfs out of boredom.

 

 

on final thought, and this one is about political doc's in general, why is it that when ever a documantary is using a clip of George Bush, why do they have to uses one where he look mentally dead? i mean, we all know he isnt the smartest person in the world, but still, do you really have to keep showing us? we get the point!

I guess the taxation thing is meant to inform people that there really is no law that legally binds you to give the government your money, however if you were to stop, they'd beat down your door eventually. And as for the whole RFID tag, the whole idea of "liberty" is the fact that the state has no right to look into your boring life. It's more of a human right to have the liberty and freedom not to be monitored, not to have some external entity be able to track you down, for any reason, whatsoever. There are other means of finding people if they are criminals. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and by that i mean a constant guarding of your rights as a person. The whole argument goes that "if you've got nothing to hide then why not..." but that isn

[Azalroth]

I guess the taxation thing is meant to inform people that there really is no law that legally binds you to give the government your money, however if you were to stop, they'd beat down your door eventually. And as for the whole RFID tag, the whole idea of "liberty" is the fact that the state has no right to look into your boring life. It's more of a human right to have the liberty and freedom not to be monitored, not to have some external entity be able to track you down, for any reason, whatsoever. There are other means of finding people if they are criminals. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and by that i mean a constant guarding of your rights as a person. The whole argument goes that "if you've got nothing to hide then why not..." but that isn

[supercanuk]

The above assumes that you don't have a choice when it comes to these RFID's. To put it simply, yes you do have a choice. As long as you have choice you are free, there is no "must do" or "have to" in this situation. If you want to be free then give up the stuff they are puttin these RFID's, refuse to have one implanted in your skin. You assume that freedom is a right, given to you. You have to make your own freedom, no one is free in this world until they choose to be free.

 

As Jean-Paul Sartre said "Man is nothin else but what he makes of himself."

 

Through Sartre's beliefs you are in "bad faith", you are passing the responsibility of your freedom to the government so in essence you choose not to be free.

 

Cheers.

 

On a side note...Erik you are gonna love this book I'm reading...

lol I bet i will enjoy the book.

 

If how i sounded was passing the buck to the government for my freedom then i wasn't articulating my message. Obviously nobody can tell you that your free and freedom is taken, not given, it is considered a "right" under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to which i as refering to, it was more of a referral then something i've internalized, in a world without choice, i believe i have found my own freedoms that i have taken lol. But to get to what you and I have been discussing id have to disagree with you on the freedom thing. If say, i didnt want the technology to be made at all, say if en masse i got a load of people against making technology that is based on tracking like RFID's, would i be able to stop it? Well no, it's in the private realm, its developed with public funds (sometimes) and then sold to private multinationals. Sometimes its just developed and sold by private companies, and i cant stop them from doing anything they want to do unless i literally walk in strapped with explosive and blow the place to kindomcome, but even then, some other company some other building will continue to progress in these technologies. And even still when these technologies are used, will i know how they are used? I will on some things, like i know they want to put it in money, i know they want to put it in clothes, they want to literally put RFID tags in every manufactured item, and it wouldn't be hard, and ultimately, companies are already implanting them in thier voluntary employees. So basically my freedom of choice is simply to leave my country to a country where this doesnt occur but how long until it just starts occuring in another country? And another? The price of liberty is eternal vigelence, if we don't take back our freedom we will live in high tech bondage, and that my friend, is a little freaky lol.

So freedom to be and freedom to shape the world we collectively live in are kinda two different things i think.

[Azalroth]

lol I bet i will enjoy the book.

 

If how i sounded was passing the buck to the government for my freedom then i wasn't articulating my message. Obviously nobody can tell you that your free and freedom is taken, not given, it is considered a "right" under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to which i as refering to, it was more of a referral then something i've internalized, in a world without choice, i believe i have found my own freedoms that i have taken lol. But to get to what you and I have been discussing id have to disagree with you on the freedom thing. If say, i didnt want the technology to be made at all, say if en masse i got a load of people against making technology that is based on tracking like RFID's, would i be able to stop it? Well no, it's in the private realm, its developed with public funds (sometimes) and then sold to private multinationals. Sometimes its just developed and sold by private companies, and i cant stop them from doing anything they want to do unless i literally walk in strapped with explosive and blow the place to kindomcome, but even then, some other company some other building will continue to progress in these technologies. And even still when these technologies are used, will i know how they are used? I will on some things, like i know they want to put it in money, i know they want to put it in clothes, they want to literally put RFID tags in every manufactured item, and it wouldn't be hard, and ultimately, companies are already implanting them in thier voluntary employees. So basically my freedom of choice is simply to leave my country to a country where this doesnt occur but how long until it just starts occuring in another country? And another? The price of liberty is eternal vigelence, if we don't take back our freedom we will live in high tech bondage, and that my friend, is a little freaky lol.

So freedom to be and freedom to shape the world we collectively live in are kinda two different things i think.

But to get to what you and I have been discussing id have to disagree with you on the freedom thing. If say, i didnt want the technology to be made at all, say if en masse i got a load of people against making technology that is based on tracking like RFID's, would i be able to stop it?

 

To this point all I have to say is that you are free for choosing to be against it, sure due to not knowing where all these blasted RFID's are going to be located you won't be free in that respect, but you are still choosing which makes you free. You might no be able to stop it either, but you've made a choice to not accept it. Acting upon that choice is a different thing.

 

 

Well no, it's in the private realm, its developed with public funds (sometimes) and then sold to private multinationals.

 

Sure it may be funded by the public, but you can choose no to pay taxes (albeit very very hard to do), you always have the freedom of choice in any situation. Morals and ethics that we have developed come into play with those choices and form which choice we will make, but you still have an option.

 

and i cant stop them from doing anything they want to do unless i literally walk in strapped with explosive and blow the place to kindomcome, but even then, some other company some other building will continue to progress in these technologies.

 

As hilarious as this would be I would have to agree with you.

 

It all boils down to what you choose to do, you can choose to try and shape the world to the way you like it. You most likely won't succeed without a LOT of help but you can try. It's this fundamental freedom of choice that makes us free, not some law that has been written down on a piece of paper. Politicians and Governments have a loop hole to over ride these laws anyway, garunteed. We might not know about the actuality of this but it's a safe bet to assume that it is there.

 

As much as I hate to stop this debate, I believe we are on the same wave length anyway...just different perspective. Hell I don't agree with this RFID crap as much as you do, and would most certainly go on a rampage if it was Mandatory to have a chip embedded in me.

[supercanuk]

Oh i know we are agreeing anyway lol so its all good lol

But yes, the law can limit your freedom, in emergency cases, like with the October Crisis, there usually has to be an emergency for them to put you on lock down and put you under martial law. But still, its one of those things, i dont know if id say im Free simply because i have the freedom to kill myself or not, you know? Its all very relative, i have the freedom to go only so far in lots of different situations, but there are at the same time lots of limitations on freedoms, my whole opinion in life is that all citizens should be given As MUCH freedom as can possibly be given to them, and i think we are in serious lack of freedom. And again, its relative, this isnt Iraq, where there is very little freedom, but the whole perspective i think in, is that we can have a lot more freedom then we do, and who doesnt love freedom ? ;) lol

[silentshadow]

Oh i know we are agreeing anyway lol so its all good lol

But yes, the law can limit your freedom, in emergency cases, like with the October Crisis, there usually has to be an emergency for them to put you on lock down and put you under martial law. But still, its one of those things, i dont know if id say im Free simply because i have the freedom to kill myself or not, you know? Its all very relative, i have the freedom to go only so far in lots of different situations, but there are at the same time lots of limitations on freedoms, my whole opinion in life is that all citizens should be given As MUCH freedom as can possibly be given to them, and i think we are in serious lack of freedom. And again, its relative, this isnt Iraq, where there is very little freedom, but the whole perspective i think in, is that we can have a lot more freedom then we do, and who doesnt love freedom ? ;) lol

A government always limits freedom. The only way to be truly free is to have no government at all, but then us psychos would do super crazy stuff. If every one respected the life of all other creatures then we could live in a natural way if life. That would be the shit, do what ever you want to. But, again, when people can do what ever they want to do, they do crazy shit. I think the day that humans can respect each other enough to not have laws will be the highest evolution of mankind. Then again, that's an extremely opptimistic view since the government will never let go of its power and since hardly anyone but me belives that people have the potential to reach a society where laws and restrictions are obsolete.

[matrix]

People definately have to potential to reach a lot of things, but never will. A lot of people, inclusive of myself, are lazy. Have potential and doing are two seperate things. Having a free society would be great, the problem is every says it, but no one wants to work for it. Everyone wants it handed to them on a silver platter and when they don't get, they complain. Complaining never got anyone anywhere, you have to act and that's America's problem.

Edited June 16, 2006 by matrix

[Azalroth]

It's like the whole world peace crap, it'll never happen because we will never be able to get rid of greed. I'm a very pessimistic person when it comes to people in general, we're just a bunch of self centred people tryin to live OUR lives to the fullest and no caring about what it does to other people. Humans will never respect each other, just not in our nature. Albeit I believe we have the potential to be so much more than we already are, it just won't happen.

[Bizud]

When you consider how much more civilized we have got in just the last two hundred years...we've abolished slavery, women can vote, the poor can vote, we have universal health care, women have control over their own bodies, same-sex couples can marry...I don't know why you guys have such a pessimistic view of human nature. A hundred years ago a trade union was a criminal organization, to stand up and demand worker rights, a criminal act.

Edited June 16, 2006 by Bizud

[supercanuk]

Interesting discussion this is unfolding into. I

Edited June 17, 2006 by supercanuk

[Azalroth]

Well....

 

looks like this topic died off, I got nothin else to bring to the table