Jack Layton Is A Good Guy

[Moonlight_Graham]

Don't agree with him on everything but, like most NDP'ers, at least he's got a good honest heart:

 

 

That's a recent pic of Layton voting for the official party stance on Canada's role in Afghanistan. The cool thing is notice he's wearing his "Make Poverty History" bracelet! I couldn't even get my own Conservative MP (who i voted for) to even make MPH a part of his official platform last federal election...let alone wear the bracelet!

[garsk]

me personally, i dont like him, for many reasons.

[Computer]

I think he's a tool.

[heyrabbit]

I never liked robin hood

[garsk]

he seems (just like the rest of the NDP party) to be fighting for the little guy, even if the little guy is just one person going one way, and the rest of the country wants to go the other way.

 

 

 

plus it is looking like he is using the state of the canadian armed forces for political gain right now.

[Ryan44]

im with u moonlight. i like him as a person...

dont trash the stache!

[cringleman]

I won't even comment on the NDP's policies or Layton as a person, but they all made me sick in the last election.

 

They ran a campaign of openly trying to come second -- that's a truly poor decision for a leader to make or allow.

[garsk]

They ran a campaign of openly trying to come second -- that's a truly poor decision for a leader to make or allow.

lol, reminds me of the democratic party in the last election.

[supercanuk]

I won't even comment on the NDP's policies or Layton as a person, but they all made me sick in the last election.

 

They ran a campaign of openly trying to come second -- that's a truly poor decision for a leader to make or allow.

I don't think anyone here ( unless they've met him several times and know him) can really say they like him as a person. We only know him in his public political life so really, i dont see how we can "like him as a person" we can like him on his idealogical beliefs, but thats about it. It's great that he's against the Afghan war, but where has he been the past five years? Like every other politician he's biding his time till he thinks he can gain support ( 52% of Canadians would like to see an immediate withdrawal of troops, this of course is in a constant state of flux). Here are some interesting facts i think everyone here should read.

[Ravenous megin-sane]

i think he's a nice fellow

[garsk]

I don't think anyone here ( unless they've met him several times and know him) can really say they like him as a person. We only know him in his public political life so really, i dont see how we can "like him as a person" we can like him on his idealogical beliefs, but thats about it. It's great that he's against the Afghan war, but where has he been the past five years? Like every other politician he's biding his time till he thinks he can gain support ( 52% of Canadians would like to see an immediate withdrawal of troops, this of course is in a constant state of flux). Here are some interesting facts i think everyone here should read.

once again erik, you cut threw the bullshit and got straight to a good point with this. and for that i say bravo!

 

so i will re-state my opinion on jack layton, i do not like his political view, it is much to different then mine. (as you more then likely already know)

 

 

 

as for the link that you gave us. a lot of the fact that were stated are already well know. it is kinda like beating a dead horse, fun but pointless. we all know that afganistan has billions of dollars in natural gas there. and we all know the west loves gas. so it is expected that we would do anything for it. as for the civilian deaths... saddly, that's war. i havent heard of one war were innocent people have died. and as long there is going to be war, there are going to be innocent people dieing for reason. as for innocent people being detained, well when your fighting an enemy that isnt wearing a uniform, it is hard to see the difference between a soldier and a civilian.

[supercanuk]

hmm, well thanks for the comment but interesting reply.

I didn't put the link as a statement of the oil issue in Afghanistan or the innocent people who have died. lol Of course you get death with war. But what i was actually hoping that people would check out is WHO we're supporting. For one, Karzai's government is FILLED with warlords and drug dealers, some of whom, have used mass rape as a strategy in their conflicts domestically. Are these the types of people we want to support? Women's rights have gone down in several respects since the invasion and we can't secure one square km of Afghanistan. I am anti war and I

Edited September 12, 2006 by supercanuk

[garsk]

Not to mention there has been no consultation with the Canadian people on what the goals of the mission are, when we can expect this ( even a rough estimate is worthy), war to end, what "victories" for the Afghani people have been or will be soon? These are all things we not only have a right to know, but ought to be told to us because the reality is, it's done in our name.

i agree, the canadian public has been left in the dark about most of all information about the mission in afghanistan. it seems to me that the only thing we hear about the mission is the Canadian deaths. we have know idea what other missions we could be running in the country, either combat or harts and minds missions.

 

but... how do you know when a war is going to end?

 

can the generals plan out the war to the last period? they dont know how the enemy is going to react, they dont know how hard they are going to fight, or in most cases, where they are.

 

and since the war is growing more and more unpopular because of the lack of informations and mounting Canadian troops deaths, it seems to me that Jack Layton has jumped onto the anti-war bandwagon. we didnt really hear much from him when we sent in troops back in 2002, but after each death, we hear the NDP calling out in the background "pull-out, pull-out, it's an American war" they should have stood up for it at the very beginning, not now when the liberals first put troops in, and the conservatives added to the mandate. Jack Layton (and the NDP) are just looking for more votes in Quebec (where the war is the most unpopular).

[Azalroth]

I'm probably going to get ragged for this post but I have to do it...

 

Politics are shit and Politicians are even worse. Politics...ever wonder what the latin meaning of that is?

 

Poli = Many

Tics = Ticks

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

Yesterday was the 5th anniversary of the 9/11 attack and all over all you hear is stuff about 9/11, personally I'm sick of it all. I think it's a nice touch that they spent 4 hours reading the names of people who died in the World Trade Centre buildings, but how come they don't do it for Sing Sing (pardon on spelling) tradgedy? or the Haloucost(sp?)? Or any other massive genocidal incidents in Africa?

 

Going back to the topic, I've never liked Jack Layton, but then again I don't like politicians...they are only after their own interests not the interests of the people they represent. No I don't know shit about politics or anything involved in it, and no I don't follow what other people say, or the media says. This is a personal opinion.

 

Also I tend not to post in these anymore as I get ravaged by Erik, who most definetly knows more and has more interest in these topics. Bravo bud, by the way you wanna let me know where I can pick up your paper from University? I think it'd be a good read and I'll pass it along to others.

 

Cheers guys and have a good debate.

[supercanuk]

General's certainly cannot predict how long a war will continue, as far as we can tell at least, and that is basically what we hear in the media. But there can be steps, for example, the first step could be something like securing the country, then maybe allowing grassroots political organizations to run their courses, and keep stability while this happens. Obviously this is going to be a hard job but better the government be decided by the citizens then by the bayonet of our troops/government. Again, we may not agree with their politics or ideology but we really have no right to change it, that's called fascism.

And yes, Jack Layton is poll pandering, ive been against this war from the beginning but im not a political voice that anyone really knows, just some obscure university student who has an unhealthy addiction to the media/news.

J, amazing post! I don

[garsk]

General's certainly cannot predict how long a war will continue, as far as we can tell at least, and that is basically what we hear in the media. But there can be steps, for example, the first step could be something like securing the country, then maybe allowing grassroots political organizations to run their courses, and keep stability while this happens. Obviously this is going to be a hard job but better the government be decided by the citizens then by the bayonet of our troops/government. Again, we may not agree with their politics or ideology but we really have no right to change it, that's called fascism.

I think one of the reasons why Jack Layton is against the whole Afghanistan war, is the way we are trying to secure the peace. We have sent troops to basically kill the taliban. and the taliban are trying to the Canadian troops any way they can, either through gun battles, road side land mines or suicide bombers. He wants a "traditional" peacekeeping mission, and i am pretty sure those went out the door after the berlin wall came down.

 

also i dont believe that the democratic process will go peaceful or smoothly in the first 20 years of the "new" afghanistan. it isnt something that just happenes over night, look at Russia, they are still having a lot of trouble with it, same with the Ukraine. it will take some time.

[Azalroth]

Hey man no worries, you usually say what I mean to say but with a more educated twist to it. lol. I usually agree with ya anyway

[supercanuk]

General's certainly cannot predict how long a war will continue, as far as we can tell at least, and that is basically what we hear in the media. But there can be steps, for example, the first step could be something like securing the country, then maybe allowing grassroots political organizations to run their courses, and keep stability while this happens. Obviously this is going to be a hard job but better the government be decided by the citizens then by the bayonet of our troops/government. Again, we may not agree with their politics or ideology but we really have no right to change it, that's called fascism.

I think one of the reasons why Jack Layton is against the whole Afghanistan war, is the way we are trying to secure the peace. We have sent troops to basically kill the taliban. and the taliban are trying to the Canadian troops any way they can, either through gun battles, road side land mines or suicide bombers. He wants a "traditional" peacekeeping mission, and i am pretty sure those went out the door after the berlin wall came down.

 

also i dont believe that the democratic process will go peaceful or smoothly in the first 20 years of the "new" afghanistan. it isnt something that just happenes over night, look at Russia, they are still having a lot of trouble with it, same with the Ukraine. it will take some time.

Nobody's saying it's going to be quick instant good change in Afghanistan, well, sorry Bush's unrealistic rhetoric says so, but anyone who has enough grey matter in their brains know's this whole process is bullshit lol. It takes time but it cannot be forced, forced democracy is the exact inverse of what it's meant to be, which is essentially facism. But yah Jack Layton is living in the past, he's thinking peace keeping in the tradition sense i think we can still do it we just have to go about it in different ways. Also, how do you fight the Taliban when the Karzar government has many members of the Taliban in it? lol again i think we're setting this whole thing up to fail, i'll tell yah in ten years from now there will be " operation enduring freedom part two" ... maybe they can make a movie about lol

EDIT: Thanks J for the nice comments ;) we do often agree.

Edited September 13, 2006 by supercanuk