some post about degrees

[heyrabbit]

you may aswell be studying atrology, with all the BS they teach in sociology

[Ryan44]

wazzzam!

[ecnarf]

you may aswell be studying atrology, with all the BS they teach in sociology

PWNED!!!

 

I hate social science and arts and humanities with a passion. They don't do jack shit compared to science or engineering.

[Spritzup]

you may aswell be studying atrology, with all the BS they teach in sociology

PWNED!!!

 

I hate social science and arts and humanities with a passion. They don't do jack shit compared to science or engineering.

That was just a stupid statement.

[ecnarf]

Oh, I'm sorry.

 

P.S. Shouldn't you be attending those rigorous 14 hours of class you have a week?

[Shiri]

Adam, you're such a geek.

[Spritzup]

Oh, I'm sorry.

 

P.S. Shouldn't you be attending those rigorous 14 hours of class you have a week?

More like 30ish odd hours a week of class, and then at least 12-15 hours a week or more of homework and studying. Plus working to actually afford being at school.

 

But regardless of that, you assume by your response that I'm taking a humanities program.

 

 

 

 

PS - Shouldn't you get your pompous little head out of your ass?

Edited September 16, 2006 by Spritzup

[ecnarf]

Judging by the course load, you must be an engineer.

 

I assumed you were taking a humanities course because no self-respecting engineer would come to the defense of social sci or arts and humanities. Out of all the kids on my floor, the best students are all either in science or engineering. The slackers and partiers and those kids with a 'sense of entitlement' are almost universally social sci or arts and humanities. That's not to say that there aren't any kids in social/humanities that don't work their asses off paying their own way through school or aren't good students (or that there aren't any scientists or engineers who slack off and party all week), but there's a pretty strong pattern.

 

Mind you, I'm not complaining about this. I'm taking science because I want to and could care less that someone else who doesn't care as much about their field as I do does a lot less work. You get out of university what you put into it.

[Spritzup]

This is true. My point being that I wouldn't want to live in a world where everybody was a scientist or an engineer. Some people just don't have a mind for science or engineering, but they are truely gifted in English, History, Poli-Sci, etc. We need both types of people, it gives different perspectives on problems, solutions, etc. And not everything in life can be solved with a formula, or a computer, or even scientifically. Humanities will often teach different ways of looking at a problem, exploring solutions, and simply communicating idea's. I think our society right now is not putting enough emphasis on the humanities, much like they were doing for the trade fields. We all benefit when somebody finds a field that they have a natural affinity for, as this is where they can do society the most good.

 

And I defend humanities because thats where I started, and to this day some of the smartest and most well rounded people I have ever encountered were humanities graduates. And as far as alot of the slackers taking humanities, just wait until the around mid-terms, they'll get their own.

 

 

EDIT - It's bad to forget words.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Spritzup

[ecnarf]

I won't knock people that actually have a passion for social sci/humanities. I was, at one point, considering a political science degree, and I have just as much an interest in history and politics as I do science. I also knew several people who took plenty of hard as fuck courses in high school (see: calculus, chemistry, discrete), got the marks that would have gotten them into any engineering program in the country, but went into the humanities because it's what they wanted to do. I really have nothing on those people.

[Spritzup]

Well now you can see why I was irritated by your statement.

 

And as a final point, one major advantage to taking the arts in your first year especially is that it exposes you to the whole university concept, teaches you how to write at a university level, and allows you to explore a slew of different subjects. So if you're unsure of what you want to take, you can try different things while still getting credit for it.

[ecnarf]

Yeah, but I'm still going to tell people in social sci or arts & humanities to "get a real degree".

[heyrabbit]

besides those majoring in the said subjects, these types of classes exist as filler to ensure that your stay in uni and college is extended to four years.

Most of it is just common sense observations about society that are completely inapplible to the real world.

 

Humans are:

 

B benevolent

R real team players

A A-OK!

V valiant

E empathy

 

the common barriers new immigrants face when moving to a new country are: social,economic,language ;)

 

I could teach one of these classes...Actually it's not a bad idea. All you have to do is setup the powerpoint and spend the rest of the class indoctrinating students with liberal views.

Edited September 16, 2006 by heyrabbit

[borntohula]

besides those majoring in the said subjects, these types of classes exist as filler to ensure that your stay in uni and college is extended to four years.

Most of it is just common sense observations about society that are completely inapplible to the real world.

 

Humans are:

 

B benevolent

R real team players

A A-OK!

V valiant

E empathy

 

the common barriers new immigrants face when moving to a new country are: social,economic,language ;)

 

I could teach one of these classes...Actually it's not a bad idea. All you have to do is setup the powerpoint and spend the rest of the class indoctrinating students with liberal views.

it's really easy to belittle intro-level courses, which is what it sounds like you're doing.

[Blender]

B benevolent

R real team players

A A-OK!

V valiant

E empathy

 

you should keep with the past theme and should use empathetic ;)

[wonks]

Yeah, but I'm still going to tell people in social sci or arts & humanities to "get a real degree".

you know, that's about the most idiotic attitude I've ever come across. you really have no idea what goes into getting an honours degree in history (or another humanities/social science program), so how could you possibly comment?

[Spritzup]

I think more of what he's referring to is that a degree in the humanities doesn't carry the same weight as a degree from the sciences/engineering.

[wonks]

that's complete bullshit though.

 

edit: and it relies on what kind of job you're looking for. companies need people with degrees in the humanities just as much as they need engineers or scientists.

Edited September 16, 2006 by wonks

[Spritzup]

But it isn't. It's much easier to find a job with an engineering degree than it is with a humanities degree. Furthermore, accurate or not, the perception is that engineering is a much more difficult program, and thus the people coming out of it are much more skilled. This means they are more in demand in the workforce, therefore the degree has more 'weight'

[wonks]

that's the problem I have all the time. all these engineers look down their noses at me, as though taking history and classics was taking the easy way out. truthfully though, you can't even compare the sciences to the social sciences/humanities. the things you learn in each are far too different.

[Prometheon]

Exactly. I'm doing a double major; one in Psych (which is a hardcore science at U of T, not a humanity) and the other in English.

 

I can honestly say that psych is easier.

 

I'm taking physics and astronomy for every elective I have, and I love engineers, but they shouldn't think that they are 'better' just because the material they learn contains more mathematical proofs and equations. One of our cheers during Frosh Week was:

 

"I'm an artsy, I'm an artsy

I'm an arrrrrtsy drinking beer!

But I'd rather be an artsy

than a FUCKING ENGINEER!!!"

 

Edit: As for the "real degree" issue, I do have to somewhat agree. There is more weight to an engineering degree than a history one, for example. It's a LOT easier to get a job with engineering than history. And God help you philosophy and journalism majors....

Edited September 16, 2006 by Prometheon

[ecnarf]

Yeah, but I'm still going to tell people in social sci or arts & humanities to "get a real degree".

you know, that's about the most idiotic attitude I've ever come across. you really have no idea what goes into getting an honours degree in history (or another humanities/social science program), so how could you possibly comment?

The "get a real degree" comment is always made with a certain degree of tongue-in-cheek. I'll even knock biologists and students in the "faculty of health science" as I see fit. Refer to: "Most annoying thing about me" thread.

 

I'm sure that a shitload of work goes into getting into any honours degree module in history, just as a similar amount of work goes into getting into an honours degree in science or the engineering specialty module (chemical, civil, mechanical) you want. But, for the sake of argument...

 

What goes into getting into a social science or arts and humanities faculty at university?

 

What pre-requisites must you have?

 

English, of course, as all programs require English. Then I assume a history or two. Then the rest is really whatever you want, as long as it's a university or university-college prep course.

 

Now, science and engineering?

 

Well, for all engineering programs, you need discrete mathematics, which is almost universally considered the toughest course offered in Ontario high schools. Many science programs (see: U of T, Waterloo) also require it. Science and engineering both require Calculus. And usually two other science electives. My two were chemistry (which my chemical engineer/teacher said was the second-hardest course to take in high school) and physics, also a difficult course. And the entrance marks are considerably higher - in the 90's for some high-demand engineering programs, but generally mid-to-low 80's for both science and eng, depending on what kind of school you go to.

 

But social sci and arts & humanities? Even at top-tier schools they will consider students with averages in the 70's. And I can guarantee that, although many people going into social sci/arts & humanities may take a science (bio was particularly popular), they aren't required to take one, and they sure as hell aren't required to take courses like calculus, chemistry or discrete mathematics. If they are required to take a math, they'll take Data Management if they can get away without taking calculus. Now, I know there are obvious exceptions to that generalization, and I know that you're going to come back by stating just how many papers honours spec. history majors write, and how long they have to be, and on and on. And I know that. Any kind of hardcore specialization modules in university require a lot of work. But how many people in social sci/a&h actually go into that kind of hardcore specialization? I can respect someone who genuinely works their ass off in a given field, but a lot of the work for upper year social sci students that I've talked to is a fucking joke.

 

As a scientist, I have a bit of a blood feud with engineers. After all, an engineer is someone who will do for profit what a scientist does for fun. But I do respect the fact that they have to work their asses off just to get into their programs, and then work harder still once they're inside, to discover that only 1 in 10 engineering undergrads has a vagina.

[wonks]

it's obviously different for me, but I took all three OAC maths, all three OAC sciences, and only one english and one history.

 

I dunno, it just raises my hackles when someone implies that I didn't work hard to get my degree. I realise that a lot of the jocks at guelph were in history or english, but by the time you hit the honours courses in fourth year, they've all been weeded out.

[Lauren]

i read all this... everyones arguments and everything.. and i still don't understand why my education is somehow less than anyone else's. i'm a first year university student. whether or not i'm in english or physics doesn't matter. i paid the same amount to get here, i worked just is hard (they worked hard at physics, i worked hard at english. same amount of effort, just different subjects) and at the end of all this i will have the same paper as everyone else tht graduates. to think that your degree is better or more real or whatever is crap. get off your high horse and realize you need english teachers and psychiatrists just as much as you need anyone else in any other field.

[somnambulist]

Hear hear.

 

Just like you need mechanics to fix your cars, as much as I don't really want to be one...