some post about degrees

[ecnarf]

Those Ivey kids are sketchy as hell.

 

P.S. Yes, I love it too. See: Most annoying thing about me thread.

[Lauren]

i think getting a 78 avergage in all university courses (no spares!) without trying pretty much at all isn't bad. i mean it's not the same as getting a 90 without trying but i have a lot of people beat. a lot. and before you critize how easy it is to do english homework, write me a 10 page essay comparing any book you like to i.a. richard's principles of literary criticsm. trying to figure out wat even one of his sentences means is impossible, let alone the whole essay (i had to do this in grade 12).

i think that b.a. students have to keep learning all the time. science students learn their equation and they're done. english students have to change their minds completely everything they start a new work. that said, i have 12 books i have to buy for english class and one is a monster anthology.

[ecnarf]

i think getting a 78 avergage in all university courses (no spares!) without trying pretty much at all isn't bad. i mean it's not the same as getting a 90 without trying but i have a lot of people beat. a lot. and before you critize how easy it is to do english homework, write me a 10 page essay comparing any book you like to i.a. richard's principles of literary criticsm. trying to figure out wat even one of his sentences means is impossible, let alone the whole essay (i had to do this in grade 12).

Lauren, I took grade 12 english just like you did. In fact, everyone who has an OSSD took grade 12 english. I've written my fair share of essays.

 

Now, go learn the effects of adding various ions has to a pH of an aqueous solution. And how to derive a secondary quadratic equation. And the shapes and bonding properties of various orbitals, and how Carbon hybridizes its four bonding orbitals to have a bonding capacity of 4.

 

P.S. I got an 87 in grade 12 university English, and had an 85 average for the six courses I submitted to the universities.

 

EDIT: No, a 78 isn't bad at all and I won't knock it, considering my averages used to be in the low 70's in grade 9 and 10. However, you just said you earned that average "without trying". Yet before you said that you worked as hard in English as I did in math or science. Now, being big on math and science, I like to use logic. A lot. Perhaps you should give it a try.

Edited September 18, 2006 by ecnarf

[Spritzup]

P.S. I got an 87 in grade 12 university English, and had an 85 average for the six courses I submitted to the universities.

Just for the record, they don't teach university english in high school. That's a joke teachers tell you to make you feel like you're accomplishing something.

 

As has been said before Ecnarf, it really amuses me how you're an expert on post-secondary education right now. Just a tidbit of information, you know jackshit about university and the whole university experience. You've been in class now, what? 3 weeks maybe? That's like a virgin giving tips on sex after getting a kiss. So maybe you should just bow out of this thread gracefully, before you continue making an ass of yourself. We'll see you after you have a year or 2 under your belt.

 

Oh, and for the record, first year gives you a warped sense of the whole university experience. After year 2, you'll see what I mean.

 

And last, but not least if you want to try and prove how tough subjects are -->

 

One of my history exams (which I had 3 hours to do) =

 

Choose 3 of the 5 topics and write a 2000 - 2500 word essay, citing specific examples from texts INCLUDING page number.

 

Topic 1 - Explain the significance of social conditions in the middle ages on the rise of the crusades.

 

Topic 2 - Give a brief overview of the socio-economic conditions in the middle ages, paying particular attention to the peasant uprisings.

 

Topic 3 - Describe the significance that women played in the french revolution.

 

Now these are all from memory, but you get the general idea.

Oh, and thats one essay each topic.

 

Also, a sample of my current course -->

 

11:45:35.771430 IP 192.168.201.252.53867 > uml1.vnet.telnet: P 34:124(90) ack 58 win 1460 <nop,nop,timestamp 1173414 112603>

0x0000: 4510 008e fade 4000 4006 2b2c c0a8 c9fc E.....@.@.+,....

0x0010: c0a8 c901 d26b 0017 941f 1dbb 94ea a07a .....k.........z

0x0020: 8018 05b4 5428 0000 0101 080a 0011 e7a6 ....T(..........

0x0030: 0001 b7db fffa 1f00 5000 18ff f0ff fa20 ........P.......

0x0040: 0033 3834 3030 2c33 3834 3030 fff0 fffa .38400,38400....

0x0050: 2300 #.

11:45:35.784063 IP uml1.vnet.telnet > 192.168.201.252.53867: . ack 124 win 2864 <nop,nop,timestamp 112614 1173414>

0x0000: 4510 0034 17a0 4000 4006 0ec5 c0a8 c901 E..4..@.@.......

0x0010: c0a8 c9fc 0017 d26b 94ea a07a 941f 1e15 .......k...z....

0x0020: 8010 0b30 fd81 0000 0101 080a 0001 b7e6 ...0............

0x0030: 0011 e7a6 ....

11:45:35.905118 IP uml1.vnet.telnet > 192.168.201.252.53867: P 58:61(3) ack 124 win 2864 <nop,nop,timestamp 112625 1173414>

0x0000: 4510 0037 17a2 4000 4006 0ec0 c0a8 c901 E..7..@.@.......

0x0010: c0a8 c9fc 0017 d26b 94ea a07a 941f 1e15 .......k...z....

0x0020: 8018 0b30 fc6d 0000 0101 080a 0001 b7f1 ...0.m..........

0x0030: 0011 e7a6 fffd 01 .......

11:45:35.905304 IP 192.168.201.252.53867 > uml1.vnet.telnet: P 124:127(3) ack 61 win 1460 <nop,nop,timestamp 1173548 112625>

0x0000: 4510 0037 fae0 4000 4006 2b81 c0a8 c9fc E..7..@.@.+.....

0x0010: c0a8 c901 d26b 0017 941f 1e15 94ea a07d .....k.........}

0x0020: 8018 05b4 0162 0000 0101 080a 0011 e82c .....b.........,

0x0030: 0001 b7f1 fffc 01

 

 

Translate.

Edited September 18, 2006 by Spritzup

[borntohula]

this thread has become way too juvenile and is completely missing the essence of the initial arugement. math is hard. english is easy. i could care less. i dont really care how hard you work for something. it was your choice to take engineering as it was my own to take english.

 

i started arguing simply because heyrabbit thought he could belittle an entire area of study, calling it BS, and liken it to astrology.

 

heyrabbit might not understand sociology, or maybe he sees no use for sociological perspectives; however, others do find it a worthwhile endeavor to humor these perspectives, being open when it comes to new ideas... while keeping in mind that they are not necessarily fact. but the same kind of thinking should be applied when dealing with math and all areas of science.

 

some of us want to learn about and understand human nature, and this is done through the eyes of many individuals, all of whom have something different to contribute and the potential to say something completely meaningful. marx, derrida, foucaut, camus, jung etc. are all indivduals worth taking a look at, regardless of what you study. the reason sociologists still look to them is the same reason why mathematicians still look back to the likes of fibonacci, einstein and newton.

 

sociology is useful to me because i can take these perspectives and apply them to literature in order to gain insight about the works themselves as well as the world around me.

 

i digress. dismissing humanities because of the amount of work involved or how much tuition is paid is childish and is an arguement not worth having. we mightas well sit here and argue about which we find more fulfilling, art or math.

Edited September 19, 2006 by borntohula

[Lauren]

Now, being big on math and science, I like to use logic. A lot. Perhaps you should give it a try.

not a good debate point.

[Azalroth]

Ugh..you had to post something like that didn't you Kirk! That's only 4 packets of a about 4000 packets we had to look at already...we have only had 3 labs in that class. We get a few hours in a lab (mostly 2 hours, with the exception of one lab class) and we have to do the rest on our own time...typically at home unless the lab won't work here then we spend x-amount of time at school on our own time.

 

But anyway that's not even on topic.

 

I believe that some courses have their own complexities, where English has their multi-thousand word essays, and math may have some really complex problems to figure out. Personally in our course, Computer System Tech., we have to deal with really complex subjects of IPs and subnetting and VLSM. Most of you won't even know what those are unless you look them up on google.ca or something. It all depends on the persons perspective of the course and their understanding of the topics that determines the difficulty level of it all. Where Lauren finds English easier likely because of the fact that she likes English and understands it better than she would, lets say TCP/IP protocol or mathematical equations compared to Ecnarf who likely enjoys thinking logically and doing math problems and probably doesn't enjoy the topics of english and might not understand it as well as Lauren. In the case of me I'm more into problem solving and computer technology as opposed to math and english, so I find my program easier than the other two. Mind you I've always liked math and have never had a problem with it and english has never been a problem for me in the past but I would find those more difficult than dealing with computers.

 

It is all based on our understanding and perception of the subject matter at hand, so to say that one program is more difficult than another is ignorant.

 

Edit: this should almost be moved to the debate section...

Edited September 19, 2006 by Azalroth

[little miss sunshine]

I love when people say "I got _____ without even trying". Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

 

Kinda like how one of my ex's said he didn't get good grades because he was way too smart and school was all bullshit and he didn't want to try. No, Rich, you're just L-A-Z-Y.

[ecnarf]

this thread has become way too juvenile and is completely missing the essence of the initial arugement. math is hard. english is easy. i could care less. i dont really care how hard you work for something. it was your choice to take engineering as it was my own to take english.

There we go.

[supercanuk]

Clearly, math is not your strength. If you do 2 hours of studying for 1 hour of class work, a social sci will do 30 hours a week and a scientist will do 50.

 

EDIT: For the sake of intellectual honesty, a science student won't really do 50 hours a week, but more like 40. You don't need to study 6 hours for a 3 hour lab, and I've got 9 lab/tutorial hours per week. I'm just saying.

I dont recall making a figure of 30 hours? I said that i remember a professor telling me for every hour of school you should do 2 hours of hmwk, so if you go to school 15 hours you will come with 30, but i didnt relate it back to science i just said it evens our pretty well lol. And you just said that it's more like 40 hours of work? i guess there is a ten hour difference, but thats not exactly standardized and i was, and continue to not work out any sort of exhaustive list of work/hours/ etc lol

[wonks]

actually, if you want a major work load, just take language courses. it's insane what some of the profs make you do.

[Azalroth]

How do you flirt with deaf interpreters? The obvious hand-touch is out of the question because your hands are otherwise engaged.

I just saw this....

 

Idiot, the interpreters aren't deaf...they can't be as they need to hear the prof speak to translate to the deaf guy in our class.

[cringleman]

I can't believe that people still think they're "debating" in this thread. This is ludicrous.

 

Look at it this way: ecnarf (and others), you will be allowed to belittle English as a field of study when you can write a novel better than the average product from either Robertson Davies or Timothy Findley. Not after writing a high school paper on the Vietnam war.

 

There are other reasonable examples of the difficulties inherent to various programmes of study (if you don't have a damn sharp palate, you'll make an awful chef). Cursory study of a subject at the secondary level does not begin to reveal the subtleties necessary to be a true student of most subjects.

 

As an engineering student, in fact, you'll actually end up with a fairly poor grounding in every science you take, compared to someone who studied that, specifically. You can correct me when you've taken more classes in engineering than I have, but you won't: it's a necessary evil -- there's no time to give an engineering student a real grounding in all of the physical sciences, a good understanding of the calculus and statistics behind what (s)he uses, as far as magical equations go, nor even a truly decent understanding of the importance of other people that are not enrolled in professional programmes.

 

As an aside, the over-enrolment in certain programmes says nothing about that programme. There are lots of people taking university degrees for no reason -- that's a separate problem. Let's leave that red herring to rot in the sun.

 

This is a bunch of he-said, she-said. Someone thinks that their degree is easier than someone else's: awesome. You're probably pretty good at it. The truth is that none of this is all that 'easy.'

 

I couldn't write a 10 000 word paper for sociology. I'd shoot myself. It just comes to some people, though, just like how some people can pile through 2000 calculus problems, only to learn that computers do most of that for engineers, now.

 

The only thing that's been determined, here, is that lots of people look down on other groups of people simply for what they've chosen to study. I'm all for looking down on idiots, but I have a good friend in Acting, and it'd be a damn injustice if someone thought they were smarter than him, just because they were training to be a physicist.

 

This is really just a 'my dad can beat up your dad' argument. Let it die. It will forever be an impasse.

[ecnarf]

How do you flirt with deaf interpreters?

Edited September 19, 2006 by ecnarf

[mself084]

Just a tidbit of information, you know jackshit about university and the whole university experience. You've been in class now, what? 3 weeks maybe? That's like a virgin giving tips on sex after getting a kiss.

That was awesome.

[ecnarf]

It's funny because you think I think I actually know the whole university experience.

 

What point have I been debating so far in this thread?

 

It is harder to get into a science or engineering program than a social science/arts and humanities program. And, for the most part, a typical science/engineering program consists of more work than a typical social sci/arts and humanities program. All these stupid straw men techniques about "What about this module that requires a lot of work? is a goddamned EXECEPTION and should be treated as such.

[Lauren]

if i did all the homework i'm supposed, i'd have no time to shower. i'm supposed to read an entire novel by thursday and from the looks of it, that will not be a stroll in the park. and that's pretty typical of social sciences student.

[wonks]

I'd say that at this point, encarf is just grasping at straws. dude clearly has no idea what a "typical program" requires.

[ecnarf]

if i did all the homework i'm supposed, i'd have no time to shower. i'm supposed to read an entire novel by thursday and from the looks of it, that will not be a stroll in the park. and that's pretty typical of social sciences student.

Well, I thought English was arts and humanities, but "typical" for social science students around here is sleeping in until 1:00 because classes don't start until 2:30. Or not doing any homework at all until today, like my roommate.

[mself084]

if i did all the homework i'm supposed, i'd have no time to shower. i'm supposed to read an entire novel by thursday and from the looks of it, that will not be a stroll in the park. and that's pretty typical of social sciences student.

Well, I thought English was arts and humanities, but "typical" for social science students around here is sleeping in until 1:00 because classes don't start until 2:30. Or not doing any homework at all until today, like my roommate.

How do you know what you're citing are examples of the rule, and not the exception?

 

I started off in engineering my first year... i slept til lunch time, I didn't do my work til later in the day... who cares? My roommate and I didn't fail.

 

I'll echo what everyone else is saying: you've been in university for 2 weeks - you know jack shit.

[Azalroth]

How do you flirt with deaf interpreters?  The obvious hand-touch is out of the question because your hands are otherwise engaged.

I just saw this....

 

Idiot, the interpreters aren't deaf...they can't be as they need to hear the prof speak to translate to the deaf guy in our class.

I meant to say how do deaf people flirt with their interpreters, if you couldn't gather that from the "your hands are otherwise engaged".

 

Idiot.

There are other ways to flirt, that don't involve your hands

 

Ugh naive youngins

 

Apparently no one has read my post above about the fact that every course is different for each person...

 

Cheers.

[Spritzup]

Yes, I'm bowing out. I've made my points, Ecnarf at this point is grasping at straws, considering he's been rebutted by everyone.

[Lauren]

he's resulting to personal attacks. so end of my comments here!

[little miss sunshine]

I think Adam is just getting pissy because no one is at his sexy party.

[Spritzup]

I wish I had a sexy party ;)