Does Anybody Really Care If Canadians Protest

[calm2chaos]

I guess I'm just wondering if you really think as a whole. That the president or the american people themselves really care about canadians protesting. Better they clog your streets then mine..LOL

I mean we have our own protesters. There really good at it to. They protest almost everything. Guess it's better then having a job. Peace and love. And let everyone do what they want. Although thats a great premise.. in the real world it's a little short sighted and a lot dangerous. But they scream and protest it anyway.

[S.E. Hardy]

the american people themselves really care about canadians protesting.

Honestly, I'll take all of the back-up that I can, no matter where it's from...the more the better.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Well the protests were a hot story on CNN and they covered the protests live.

 

They also had a story on the Daily Show. So yes people care or CNN wouldn't waste the air-time.

[frustrated inc.]

I guess I'm just wondering if you really think as a whole.

Im going to assume you're referring to Canadians when you say "you": Canadians think as individuals, no different than anyone else from most other countries. Only difference is we haven't been conditioned to tolerate totalitarian ideals through propaganda and fear-tactics, unlike 51% of our neighbours to the south.

 

That the president or the american people themselves really care about canadians protesting.

Unfortunatly, I don't think they do care. Your president has the resources to do what he feels is best for government control over the people of the united states of america (read a bit about CAPPS II, human implant chips, new torture-for-evidence policies [introduced in another thread], etc). But maybe one day all this protesting will inspire one american citizen, otherwise oblivious to his/her surroundings, to investigate why these protests happen internationally. And learn something. And tell a friend. And eventually stop tolerating the actions and policies that infringe on fundmental freedoms of people, not just in the united states, but all over the world.

 

Better they clog your streets then mine..LOL

People have had visits from the CIA and FBI for less in the states, so its no surprise that protests don't happen as often as they should in the u.s. When you're sure big brother isn't watching, and the thought police can't get to you, do some research as to why people are protesting. (ref: 1984)

 

I mean we have our own protesters. There really good at it to. They protest almost everything. Guess it's better then having a job.

It's easier to be ignorant and miseducated about these issues, I'll give you that. But there are alot of reasons to protest. Mainly for ...

Peace and love.

Edited December 4, 2004 by frustrated inc.

[ToadMan]

I can't add anything to that, nice post Greg.

 

Peace

[Scot]

I guess I'm just wondering if you really think as a whole. That the president or the american people themselves really care about canadians protesting. Better they clog your streets then mine..LOL

I mean we have our own protesters. There really good at it to. They protest almost everything. Guess it's better then having a job. Peace and love. And let everyone do what they want. Although thats a great premise.. in the real world it's a little short sighted and a lot dangerous. But they scream and protest it anyway.

You're an American then, I take it?

 

Figures you'd think that way.

 

All your comments scream that you're better than us, and Americans do that best.

[calm2chaos]

Well let’s just start out with the first thing. "You" This could refer to you, or me, or people in general. That I assume would include Canadians.

What amazes me about your reply was how you seemed to lump 51% of an entire country into a single group. You don't know these people, what they think, or do, or believe. But because they think differently then you that makes them brainwashed. There all wrong because they don't view things within our country the way you do in yours.

Let's face relatively simple facts. When the world looks for a policeman. When there are threats out there, and there are no popular decisions that will make everything better. When there has to be a hand, to slap the bad guys down. Nobody looks to canada, hell nobody looks anyplace but to the south of you.

It's so easy to complain when nothings expected of you. But be in the position where everybody looks to you. That every decision you make isn't going to make everybody happy but it has to be made. It's easy to stand tall when you stand for nothing. Life becomes a bit more complicated when you have to stand at the front of the line.

CIA and FBI breaking down peoples doors.. Big Brother tracking our every move.. Human implants....Cmon now. I'll take my freedoms here and place them against anybody in the world, bar none. Can't say as if I have ever had any law enforcement come through my door. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't on some mythical wide scale daily event. Mistakes are made, not all answers are right. And for the record I’m neither ignorant nor miseducated. I’m differing in opinion and view.

Honestly I think I agree with you in some respects. I think we should stay out of foreign affairs and policy. Tend to our own garden and let whatever happens outside our house happen. Where never going to be popular, and thats just fine by me. I don't need or want any person or countries accalaids or praise. We as a country have the ability and technology to be completely self sufficient. So why bother going outside for any reason other then vacation.

[dagashi]

I would have to say, given the sliding effectiveness of protesting in general, that only the protestors and those that support the protestors really care.

I mean, for example, in Seattle in 1999, the WTO talks were stopped more than once due to protesting and rioting (the darker side of protesting). The talks ultimately collapsed. Yet in Miami of last year protests occurred at a meeting to discuss the FTAA, but were suppressed with such harshness that it was later declared by the Miami county panel that for a time the city lived in "martial law". Futhermore, from what I understand of the RNC this year, the protests were shunted so far away from the convention building itself that they were completely out of earshot. The Republicans, of course, hailed this as "freedom of expression".

 

Perhaps the time for protests has not passed, but overall, Canadian, American, European, or Asian, protestors simply aren't having the disrupting effect that they once had. Whether this means that protestors simply need a higher degree of organization, or that perhaps we need an entirely different outlet for our protestation, I'm not sure.

 

You know, I read somewhere that Lycos had created an anti-spam screensavers. When running on your computer, the screensaver would simply ping known spam servers. Not enough to constitute an actual DOS attack, but enough to increase their bandwidth consumption (and consequently their internet bill). Perhaps something like this could be set up to up bandwidth costs for websites for the the international NGO of questionable ethics of your choice.

 

On it's own, something like this might not make a huge difference, but if several smart brains put their heads together, I'm sure there's all sorts of havoc to wreaked over the internet.

 

Oh, and calm2chaos, while Canada might have the technology and agricultural resources to be self sufficient, unless we close our borders to immigration, and cut off all international trade (which, most likely, would ruin our country), there is no way we can "tend to our own garden". To put it simply: We exist in a world economy, whether by choice or chance. To withdraw from that economy is to destroy our country, and to cut ourselves off completely from innovation.

Try and think your way through your suggestions before you posts them, and do us all a favor: Learn the difference between "there", "they're", and "their" etc.... I'm not sure if swearing is allowed on these forums, and that's why my post doesn't contain a long list of expletives directed towards you for your post which so ridiculously neglects factoring in "reality".

Edited December 6, 2004 by dagashi

[calm2chaos]

I would have to say, given the sliding effectiveness of protesting in general, that only the protestors and those that support the protestors really care.

I mean, for example, in Seattle in 1999, the WTO talks were stopped more than once due to protesting and rioting (the darker side of protesting). The talks ultimately collapsed. Yet in Miami of last year protests occurred at a meeting to discuss the FTAA, but were suppressed with such harshness that it was later declared by the Miami county panel that for a time the city lived in "martial law". Futhermore, from what I understand of the RNC this year, the protests were shunted so far away from the convention building itself that they were completely out of earshot. The Republicans, of course, hailed this as "freedom of expression".

 

Perhaps the time for protests has not passed, but overall, Canadian, American, European, or Asian, protestors simply aren't having the disrupting effect that they once had. Whether this means that protestors simply need a higher degree of organization, or that perhaps we need an entirely different outlet for our protestation, I'm not sure.

 

You know, I read somewhere that Lycos had created an anti-spam screensavers. When running on your computer, the screensaver would simply ping known spam servers. Not enough to constitute an actual DOS attack, but enough to increase their bandwidth consumption (and consequently their internet bill). Perhaps something like this could be set up to up bandwidth costs for websites for the the international NGO of questionable ethics of your choice.

 

On it's own, something like this might not make a huge difference, but if several smart brains put their heads together, I'm sure there's all sorts of havoc to wreaked over the internet.

 

Oh, and calm2chaos, while Canada might have the technology and agricultural resources to be self sufficient, unless we close our borders to immigration, and cut off all international trade (which, most likely, would ruin our country), there is no way we can "tend to our own garden". To put it simply: We exist in a world economy, whether by choice or chance. To withdraw from that economy is to destroy our country, and to cut ourselves off completely from innovation.

Try and think your way through your suggestions before you posts them, and do us all a favor: Learn the difference between "there", "they're", and "their" etc.... I'm not sure if swearing is allowed on these forums, and that's why my post doesn't contain a long list of expletives directed towards you for your post which so ridiculously neglects factoring in "reality".

 

 

Excuse my use of "there" please. It's just a time saver when I type, which I don't do well.

I agree with you that Canada could not remove itself from the world Market. I wasn’t talking about Canada. And I apologize for not making that clear. We (United States) do exist in a world economy; I’m not arguing that fact. But I feel that America needs to get out of the job of policing. Let's start by removing ourselves from the United Nations. The only way this happens I believe is to limit our involvement on global scale. I mean financially, militarily and politically. You can't be all things to all people.

I have no problems with closing our borders. I think it should have been done a number of years ago. Lets employ our citizens and educate our children and feed our people. and let the rest of the world do the same.

This idea of a world of peace and love is just not possible. It's a great idea, but it isn't plausible. Their will always be somebody that wants more. And they take from whoever is smaller. Almost every country in the world is guilty of this at some point in history. So what do you do then? I want your land; I have the power I'm going to take it. Somebody has to go in and help out. I would love to live in a world where bad things don't happen. Let Canada or Europe be the policeman.

My original post wasn't meant as slight to Canada. It was simply a question. Everybody protests America for one thing or another. We see it everyday, from all over the world. I don't know how to get messages across today. But I think allot of Americans see protests as just a part of being who we are. People ask for security and then protest the way you provide it. Fine by me, we should get out. The Middle East, North & South Korea, Genocide, torture, murder, war. Let someone else steer the boat, we'll hang out in the back and paint our peace signs.

Sorry about any grammatical errors within this post. It's obviously annoyed the hell out of you last time.

[Princess]

But I feel that America needs to get out of the job of policing. Let's start by removing ourselves from the United Nations. The only way this happens I believe is to limit our involvement on global scale.

 

I agree with you 100% that America needs to get out of policing every other nation. As for removing yourselves from the UN - I kinda think you did that to an extent when you went ahead with the bombing of Iraq without permission of the UN which is required since you are still, technically, a member. And lets remember that you are also not really following the Geneva Convention (re: Guatanamo (sp?) Bay) so I guess you are out of that too.

 

What amazes me about your reply was how you seemed to lump 51% of an entire country into a single group. You don't know these people, what they think, or do, or believe. But because they think differently then you that makes them brainwashed. There all wrong because they don't view things within our country the way you do in yours.

 

Maybe brainwashing isn't the right word but I'm not sure what else to call it, maybe just grossly misinformed? In a poll done close to the election, more than half of Americans still thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11 . And thought that Bush would not have gone in unless it had something to do with 9/11. Alot of people also said they would not support a president that would do such a thing...yet 51% of Americans voted him in. I wish I could find the source for the above but unfortunately, I'm just going by memory.

 

I honestly used to think of America as a very progressive country but the way things have been in the past say, 10 years, I was way, way off.

Edited December 6, 2004 by Princess

[calm2chaos]

And lets remember that you are also not really following the Geneva Convention (re: Guatanamo (sp?) Bay) so I guess you are out of that too.

I find it difficult to bring up the Geneva Convention. It's tough to do in my opinion. When the people your dealing with saw off peoples heads on TV, burn and drag bodies through the streets. Knowingly target civilians of the own country.

Far as the UN is concerned. I'll never want my security or defense to be approved by an outside party. Just kinda curious on who's gonna do the policing though. You honestly think that theres a talking solution to everything. I think history proves that theroy wrong. Some people will always use force to get what they want. And unless there is fear of some kind of retribution. They have nothing left to hold them back. Who will hold the hammer in these instances?

[dagashi]

Bah as far as Iraq goes, Bush fucked up when his PR people coined the term "War on Terror".

 

The Bush administration used the word "war" to attempt to legitimize their needless invasion of foreign soil to the peoples of the world. But in using that word "war", the administration also legitimized the actions of the terrorists on 9/11.

 

I mean, the Bush administration basically pulled their 20 000 troops out of Afghanistan (the last known location of Bin Laden at the time), and then sent 6 times that many into Iraq, where there were rumours of "al Qaeda" (sp, sorry), and "WMDs" in Iraq, even though it was later proven that the reports were "false" (i.e. the Bush administration lied).

 

But let's try and keep this discussion within the scope of the thread: The effectiveness of protestation.