Musicians - The Music Theory Thread

[Disestabulistic]

Near Fantastica:

(the guitar is the song is tuned to Eb, but i don't really wanna write in all those flats and bother with mental transposing, so when youre playing it, just drop every note or chord by a half step)

 

EDIT: And i cannot get the damn spacing right for the chords to be in sync with the lyrics!! The 'Bm D' comes right at the end of each line, listen for the changes in the song.

 

Intro Riff:

F# G A G (repeat as needed)

 

 

Intro/Verse: (straight outta the tab, i didn't write this)

 

Em

THese pink pills are for your sanity

G Bm D

We are buried in the earth because we cant beat gravity

Em

And you still here and so made to figure

G Bm D

You are an important part of the computer

Em

Born of the Sea, Blink, the Sea is dead

G Bm D

Falls out of my, sockets in my head

Em

Everyone's a captain baby, ship of fools

G

Drowning while they're telling you

 

Chorus (still didnt write this)

 

D

It's been alright

Em G

Its been alright

D

It's been alright

Em G

Its been alright

 

The so-called 'solos between verses':

 

B C# E F# B A A B C# E F# B A A B C# E F# B C# E D D B

(most of the solos start like that)

 

'Breakdown':

Em G Em11/F#

 

Em

Cant fear fear, fears the mind killer

G Em11/F#

Cant fear fear, fears the mind killer

 

 

I'm not sure if this is quite as in-depth as you wanted; most of the verses and such were copied straight from the tab site. I did do the melody lines though (the ones played by the guitar, at least).

 

Aaaanyway... man of action later, if this is actually what you wanted. Low quality tabs are hard to work with; if everyone used Powertab, we wouldn't have this problem!! The notation would be right there already!

Thank you!

 

Question: are we talking chords or just notes?

[Ravenous Yam]

The intro riff and 'solos' are just notes, the verses, chorus, and 'breakdown' are all chords.

[Disestabulistic]

Thanks!

 

Now...TO PRINT!

[Ravenous Yam]

I felt like reviving this. It's stickied, and it can't be all old stuff.

 

Today i will be showing and explaining some odder, more Eastern style scales, because i feel like it. I have no idea how much use anyone can get out of this, but they are kinda neat, and can sound really awesome when used right.

 

Unfortunately, it is pretty difficult to explain how to best utilize these scales, except through lots of experimentation. If you play anything with enough gusto and confidence, you can make it sound at least decent, guaranteed. I will put with the scale the basic tonic (I) chord belonging to the key of the scale.

 

First, two alternate classical Western scale sets that provide a good primer for the tonality of eastern scales..

 

Harmonic Minor (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7)

- Nearly identical to the traditional natural minor (Aeolian) scale except for the natural 7th tone. This tone was changed so the scale would have a leading tone to the tonic. It has can have a distinctly Middle Eastern sound if used right, it is used a lot in classical music and also in the neo-classical style of the 80's (think Yngwie Malmsteen).

Tonic chord: (I)m (or (I)m/maj7)

 

Melodic Minor (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7)

-Some people of the day did not like the b3 jump (see below) from b6 to 7 in the Harmonic Minor, so they raised the 6 as well. This makes is identical to the Major (Ionian) scale except for the minor third. It has a kind of peculiar sound, and can be difficult to utilize unless you are familiar with it. Used a lot in classical and jazz.

[Note: in jazz it is typical, when using the Melodic Minor, to play what i described above when you are ascending, and play the usual Natural Minor descending... i have no idea why]

Tonic Chord: (I)m (or (I)m/maj7)

 

 

 

Eastern Scales: Important to note, these are just approximations of actual eastern scales applied to the narrow western view of music. It works quite well, though. Also, anytime you jump a b3rd interval between non-chord tones (ie. b6 to 7 or b2 to 3), it will probably sound Eastern.

 

Arabian: 1 2 b3 4 #4 #5 6 7

Tonic Chord: Kinda tricky, but a (I)dim would work. You could try a (I)m, but the 5th might clash with the #4 and #5.

 

Byzantine/Double Harmonic (my favourite): 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7

[you may recognize this scale from Dick dale's Misirlou, the theme song to Pulp Fiction]

Tonic Chord: (I)major or (I)maj7

 

Hungarian Minor/Gypsy (another great one): 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7

Tonic Chord: (I)m, (I)m/maj7

 

Hindu: 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 (works best over a stationary drone note of the tonic)

Tonic Chord: The drone note is best, but the chord would be (I)major or (I)7

 

Enigmatic: (just... weird; i dont know where this originates from historically) 1 b2 3 b5 #5 b7 7

Tonic Chord: (I)+ (aka augmented)

 

Phrygian Dominant: 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7 (this is a mode of the harmonic minor scale, it can sound egyptian in the right context)

Tonic Chord: (I)major or (I)7

 

This is BY NO MEANS a complete list, the Indian Ragas and Melas alone number probably over 100 (no, i do not have any of those Ragas and Melas memorized). These scales do, however, provide a good primer for the variation in the immense number of possible scales. Incidentally, the total number of distinct different scales is 4094, in ONLY the western note set. Like i said earlier in the thread, some actual eastern note sets have as many as 80 notes.

 

Lots of fun to play around with, and once you get used to their unique sounds they can sound extremely kickass in the right situations.

 

I can't allow a stickied thread of mine to go so long without new posts, thus this article.

[Prometheon]

Hmmmm, any advice on helping me bust out of 4/4 time signatures as a drummer?

[Disestabulistic]

I AM NOT A RHYTHM EXPERT!

 

With that said, try 3/4, it's the second easiest time signature. If you can jam with other people, try playing in diferent time signatures, for example, guitar in 4/4, drums in 3/4. If you can keep a steady rhythm, it sounds pretty cool.

[Prometheon]

Yeah, I can do 3/4 relativly well. I can hold the beat and keep time, but when I do a fill I always end on the wrong note because my brain is so hardwired to spend 4 (or 8, or 16) bars in 'fill mode.' But I shall continue trying, thanks.

[vrx]

who put what in the where now?

[no yu begin wher i end]

Yeah, I can do 3/4 relativly well. I can hold the beat and keep time, but when I do a fill I always end on the wrong note because my brain is so hardwired to spend 4 (or 8, or 16) bars in 'fill mode.' But I shall continue trying, thanks.

Try this when you play in a different time signature: break up the beats into seperate groups.

 

For example, 12/8. Pulse it as you would 4/4, except every beat in 4 is actually 3 in 12/8. That is, count each beat as a triplet (1 2 3, 2 2 3, 3 2 3, 4 2 3).

 

For some excellent examples of playing in different time signatures, listen to the album Time Out by Dave Brubeck, particularily 'Take Five' (in 5/4) and 'Blue Rondo a la Turk' (in 9/8).

 

Keeping track of the time centres around pulse, I find.

[Prometheon]

Oooo, awesome. Thanks a ton for that, it'll help immensely.

[mofonik]

OR 1234 2234 3234

[no yu begin wher i end]

Oooo, awesome. Thanks a ton for that, it'll help immensely.

Anything to help a brother out ;) .

 

 

OR 1234 2234 3234

 

For 12/8? It could work, but only if that's how the composer has grouped the eighth-notes. Typically, 12/8 is divided into 4 groups of 3.

[Prometheon]

Since no one is responding to my other thread in open Discussion, maybe you guys can rate my drumming.

 

From the other topic:

 

I recently hooked up with my dad to do some drum practice and try recording some stuff. So here I have, for your appraisal, 3 tracks of me busting out my drum skills.

 

I'll tell you right now that I usually sound better, as I'm not used to my dad's kit, and his bass pedals were REALLY different from mine, so in Everything is Automatic, try to ignore the really bad bass.

 

Everything is Automatic: http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2FMZ0T9...0I1CYFJU5IQXYLR

 

This is....decent. I screw up a few times, but I just wanted to show you guys my approach to the chorus, which I think is really cool. I'm mostly refering to the part during the "it's always what I wanted...." Let me know what you think.

 

Come Over by Limblifter: http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3OL06DD...EG2U5U7Z1MX1CMB

 

This one is pretty true to the record, though I change a few arrangements, and near the end I just start dicking around, so ignore that. Though if you skip to about 3:00 I like what I'm doing there.

 

Try Honesty by Billy Talent: http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2ZAC4DN...ZG2KPBEBVRC3R63

 

Techinically, this is probably the best one, and I screw up like, maybe twice. It's pretty good and I like it. So if you're only gonna listen to on of these, make it this one. I know Billy Talent is one of those bands thats frowned upon, but this song is fun as hell to drum too.

 

Thanks for listening to these if you did, and pllllease give me some feedback.

[Disestabulistic]

Unfortunately, the link you have clicked is not available.

 

The link is invalid. Use only the link that was generated by YouSendIt and mailed to the recipient.

 

Please check if your email client broke the link up over multiple lines. You may need to reconstruct the link manually by cutting and pasting all the components into your web browser's address bar.

[Prometheon]

WTF? Ugh, now I gotta upload all hose again. one sec...

 

Edit:

 

strangley, the links on this page work:

 

http://www.nearfantastica.com/bored/index.php?showtopic=6733

 

I have no idea why, as I just copy/pasted it. Tres bizzarre.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Prometheon

[Disestabulistic]

Pretty good! I think you may have been rushing at one point, but aside from that it was good. It could have used some variation, it got a little repetitive. Try drumming a 16 beat, it sounds cool, and looks fun.

[Prometheon]

Yeah, the slight time descrpencies occur ebcause I'm playing TO a song that already has drums, so I kinda listen to them and then hit my own, which leads to a milisecond delay. But that problem doesn't exist when I'm jammin with the band.

 

Thanks for the praise ;)

[bobbyshane]

Ravenous Yam.. I have a lesson idea for you... basic chord shapes on guitar... for instance 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and so on. or maybe some sort of classical guitar lesson. ;)

[Ravenous Yam]

Good idea!

 

I'll do the chord one now, and possibly a classical one later.

 

(if anything in this isn't fully clear ask me)

 

There are 5 basic chord shapes everyone needs to know for guitar from which all other chord forms are derived.

 

This is the basis of the CAGED system.

The chords you need to know are (open position)

C: x32010

A: x02220

G: 320033

E: 022100

D: xx0232

 

Firstly, all of these shapes can be moved (in a barre form) all the way up the neck to make different chords in the same shape.

 

For instance, the A form (x02220) can be moved up to the 5th fret with a barre to make a D chord (x57775). The easiest way to remember where to put the shape for a particular chord is to look at the lowest note. Where in the original example the lowest note was A (open on the A string), when it was moved up to D, the lowest note was the D on the 5th fret of the A string.

 

This works with all of those shapes. Move E (022100) up three frets to get G (355433).

 

Also, all of these shapes can be changed to their parallel minor form by flattening the 3rd degree one half step. What this means is that for an A chord (x02220), changed to an Amin chord is (x02210). Notice the C# has been flattened to a C natural.

 

This flattening of the third degree works for all the chord forms except C, which has one of its 3rd degree on an open string (high E), which cannot be flattened. Another way to play this chord shape is C(x32013) and Cmin (x31013).

 

 

 

This, in conjunction with the extensions i am about to explain, will enable you to play any chord, anywhere on the neck easily and quickly.

 

All chords can be modified by adding extensions to them. The 7th degree is most common, as it is generally added before any other extension in most cases.

 

(all demonstrated in A for my sake)

There are four types of chord with a 7th degree.

 

-Dominant 7th (notated like A7)

Here is an A7 chord shown in the 5 CAGED positions.

 

x 12 11 9 10 9 (C shape)

x02020 (A shape)

542223 (G shape)

575655 (E shape)

xx7 9 8 9 (D shape)

 

-Major 7th (notated as Amaj7) (notice which note has changed from the original form and the Dominant 7th shape)

Amaj7: x02120

 

-Minor 7th (notated as Am7)

Am7: x02010

 

Minor/Major 7th (notated as Am/maj7)

Am/maj7: x02110

 

 

 

From adding the seventh degree you can also add 9ths, 11ths, 6ths, and so on.

 

Other chord types, mostly with extensions.

 

-5th chord (AKA power chord) (contains 1 and 5 degrees only)

x022xx

 

-suspended 4th (contains 1 4 5 degrees)

Asus4: x02230

 

-suspended 2nd (contains 1 2 5 degrees)

Asus2: x02200

 

-6th (1 3 5 6)

A6: x02222

 

-min6th (1 b3 5 6)

Am6: x02212

 

-min9th (1 b3 5 7 9)

Am9: x02413

 

-add9 (1 3 5 9)

A(add9) x02420

 

-dim (1 b3 b5)

Adim: x0121x

 

-dim7 (1 b3 b5 bb7) <-- double flat 7th is the same as a natural 6th

Adim7: xx1 2 1 2

 

-m7b5 (1 b3 b5 b7)

Am7b5: x0101x

 

-augmented (1 3 #5)

A+: x03221

 

There is still a lot more chord types made out of these extensions, (and the much less common b2, #9, #4, and b6), but mostly useless unless you are playing jazz. These are the most important ones, and if you practice enough you will get the hang of seeing how to switch between different chords and chord types easily.

 

For a reference chart with most chord types go here: http://www.jmdl.com/howard/music/quick_crd_ref.html

[bobbyshane]

This is good stuff... in a way a lot of this I already know as a self taught guitarist, however I do not know all of this coherently, if that makes sense.. but I do use a lot of weird open chords... for instance I tend to take an E chord and play it 2 frets up with the low e, the b, and the high e ringing which I believe to be an F#/E? is that right? anyhow I just don't know all of the technical what is what as far as how all of the notes relate together in official name and etc.. most of what I know after playing without instruction for the past 14 years I know by ear.. but I have recently decided to take it upon myself to fill in the blanks.. Thanks for putting this thread up I might tire you however with regular questions if it won't be too much trouble ;)

[Ravenous Yam]

No trouble at all.

 

And since you brought it up, that chord is technically a F#11/E (it includes the b7 and the 11), but it's way, way easier to look at it the way you did, because it doesn't change the function of the chord any.

 

And if you've been playing 14 years already, the hardest part is finished. Theory is easier than knowing what sounds good.

[bobbyshane]

Yeah so far it does seem easier... I would just like to be able to express things to other musicians and put things together in my head more coherently... and at the same time learning more always encourages you to try new things... at least in my experience... ;)

[Prometheon]

WOuld someone be so kind as to upload (yousendit perhaps?) a song with a funky beat that is off time? I'm looking for non 4/4 time signatures that are funky. No Rush please (as I will never be able to play along to Rush). Thanks.

[no yu begin wher i end]

'Money' by Pink Floyd is in 7/8.

[Prometheon]

I don't have a music download program, so would you mind uploading it?