From One, To Three

[supercanuk]

Link

 

The federal government has called an inquiry into the case of three other Canadians who were deported to Syria, as a separate inquiry released its second report on the similar case of Maher Arar.

 

On Tuesday, Public Works Minister Stockwell Day appointed former Supreme Court justice Frank Iacobucci to lead the inquiry into the deportations of Muayyed Nureddin, Abdullah Almalki and Ahmad El Maati.

 

He made the announcement hours after the release of the second Arar report, which calls for an independent watchdog to oversee the national security activities of the RCMP.

 

So it seems three more Canadian citizens have been tortured mentally and physically in Syria, are we getting worried about our civil liberties yet?

[Spritzup]

No x45678

[garsk]

well Arar was arrested in the US and set to Syria where he was saddly beaten and tortured for a year. BUT! the other three people were arrested in Syria, and then beaten and tortured. So yeah, i dont know where you coming from with the civil liberties? please explain erik.

[supercanuk]

well Arar was arrested in the US and set to Syria where he was saddly beaten and tortured for a year. BUT! the other three people were arrested in Syria, and then beaten and tortured. So yeah, i dont know where you coming from with the civil liberties? please explain erik.

All three are Canadian citizens and the information collected about them, which was false, was sent to the Syrians. The draconian policies of the Anti-Terrorism Act are what helped the Canadian intelligence apparatus to collect this faulty information on them, which lead to their capture and torture with the complicity of our government. The sweeping Anti-Terror legislation is rife with open ended clauses which allow for the obvious abusive ability of our intelligence agencies which have been typified in these four cases.

[garsk]

but these people went to syria on their free will, one went to a wedding, the Canadian or US Government didnt send them there. Yes, CSIS went to talk to one of them on sept 11, 2001, but shouldnt they collect information on any and all protent threats? And still 4 out of 34 million Canadians, or 4 out of a million muslim canadians (just a random guess of how many there are in canada, i am more then like wrong). am i worried about our civil liberties? no.

[supercanuk]

but these people went to syria on their free will, one went to a wedding, the Canadian or US Government didnt send them there. Yes, CSIS went to talk to one of them on sept 11, 2001, but shouldnt they collect information on any and all protent threats? And still 4 out of 34 million Canadians, or 4 out of a million muslim canadians (just a random guess of how many there are in canada, i am more then like wrong). am i worried about our civil liberties? no.

Just because a Canadian goes abroad of their own free will does not open them up to torture by other states. The Canadian state did not address why they were detained and tortured in Syria for three years, i can imagine if this was a non-mulim, the reaction would be quite different. This is still the liberty of our muslim citizens being denied, they are not being protected under life, liberty and security of the person, section one of our charter. There are several other sections I could cite, but this a main one. No the Canadian government did not send them there, but these guys are saying the Syrian officials were telling them that the information was given to the Syrians by Canada about their links to terrorists. Whether this is true or not we'll soon enough learn, but this is still a horrible offence to now four Canadian citizens. Four out of 34 million Canadians muslim or not, is still a pretty bad amount if all roads lead to the same source. They happen to all be Muslim, and I think that there is a reason for that, we throw out our values of multiculturalism and show our true nature. I still think this is a civil rights issue, all rights beloning to anglo-saxon protestant Canadians, French, Aboriginal, Jewish, Muslim, Christian all have to be protected equally, and the evidence from the Arar commission seems to contradict all of this.

[garsk]

Well one thing the Canadian Government could and should do is a travel ban for Canadian going to Syria. For some reason Syria loves to torture Canadians. If we stop them from traveling their, (on their free will), hopefully this like this will stop. But other then that, there is not much that the Canadian Government can do. Years of putting our military into a peacekeeping role has depleted our military to the point that it has no real fighting power felt. The world power is still through a gun, and Canada has stupidly traded them all in for little blue hats and a dream of a peacekeeping force. There is not much we can do.

 

 

 

 

 

PS. I have been waiting all day for your reply Erik.

[supercanuk]

Well one thing the Canadian Government could and should do is a travel ban for Canadian going to Syria. For some reason Syria loves to torture Canadians. If we stop them from traveling their, (on their free will), hopefully this like this will stop. But other then that, there is not much that the Canadian Government can do. Years of putting our military into a peacekeeping role has depleted our military to the point that it has no real fighting power felt. The world power is still through a gun, and Canada has stupidly traded them all in for little blue hats and a dream of a peacekeeping force. There is not much we can do.

 

PS. I have been waiting all day for your reply Erik.

Hehe, i'm glad we can have these conversations and respectfully disagree, it's apart of our plutocracy! ;)

 

But see if we put a travel ban on Canadians going to Syria we are also infringing on people's mobility rights, which are actually in the constitution, im not even making this stuff up (but it's directed to travel within the country, but still i am sure you'd get an uproar). The thing is, I think Syria is being used as a patsy, I think to blame it all on Syria torturing is sort of a smoke and mirrors tactic because nobody in the government has come forward about who supplied the info to the Syrians that lead the Syrians to detain them. That's a pretty important part of this story and nobody is really addressing it or comming forward. There is the possibility that the Syrians were lieing about acting on information gathered by the Canadian authorities on these individuals, but all four of these men have experianced the same thing and all of them tell the same story, and none of them know each other, so it's highly unlikely. I think international relations with Syria should have been enough to get our own countrymen back. I think the fact that they did not actively pursue their release diplomatically and then in the case of the newly "discovered" three other individual's involved waited three years to even begin an investigation only after pressure from the Arar affair speaks volumes to A) The intelligence apparatus's failure to the Canadian people B) High level corruption C)Speaks volumes on the post-911 fear that intelligence organizations are working under. Thank god for Justice O'Connor finally suggesting what is generally an accepted norm by other states, which is of course his suggestion of civilian oversight to the RCMP. This is long overdue and will hopefully reduce the possiblity of more cases such as these.

Hopefully the government actually implments all of O'Connor's suggestions.

[no yu begin wher i end]

The Canadian state did not address why they were detained and tortured in Syria for three years, i can imagine if this was a non-mulim, the reaction would be quite different.

I think one of the scary things about this is that there wouldn't be outcry no matter who experienced this. It's not quite the same thing, but remember that guy (he had dual British-Canadian citizenship) who was arrested in Saudi Arabia and was almost executed? There wasn't much of a hue and cry about that until the final days of the deal to have him set free.

 

Edit: my first sentence sounds kinda racist....umm....shit....you all know what I mean.

Edited December 14, 2006 by no yu begin wher i end

[supercanuk]

The Canadian state did not address why they were detained and tortured in Syria for three years, i can imagine if this was a non-mulim, the reaction would be quite different.

I think one of the scary things about this is that there wouldn't be outcry no matter who experienced this. It's not quite the same thing, but remember that guy (he had dual British-Canadian citizenship) who was arrested in Saudi Arabia and was almost executed? There wasn't much of a hue and cry about that until the final days of the deal to have him set free.

 

Edit: my first sentence sounds kinda racist....umm....shit....you all know what I mean.

Nah I know what you mean, and you raise a good point. I didn't intend to mean that it was only Muslims, it could really be anyone and that to me as well as you is clearly horrific. I think maybe since these people were not part of the "important" class as I call them like a politician, celebrity, or child of the above two, they just dont raise a concern about it. I can't remember the people involved but the past couple of days the news has had three days coverage of this girl whose the daughter of some famous person who was lost at sea. They've been televising missing people on CNN for days and yet CBC wont even mention four people missing for a year and then when they get back won't even publish a story about the occurances? I dont know, maybe they dont believe them and now that it's been made into a report they will report on it. These types of happenings seem to have really odd histories wit the media. Lack of coverage, lack of action on a part of the government, all very off putting.

[no yu begin wher i end]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I want to shoot someone when I flip past Nancy Grace.

 

One reason I think why the Maher Arar case made the news was that he was allowed one phone call, and he called his mother-in-law, who hired a lawyer who could've informed the media to the story, who first reported it back in October 2002. The article doesn't mention anything like that about the three others, probably because they were arrested in Syria, although I did find a few CBC articles on them, published after they were released. All the same, it's a blatant violation of Canadian sovereignty, and you'd think that at least would make it front page news, like the US submarine up north.

[supercanuk]

lol I hate Nancy Grace SO much, but yah very good points, Arar got really lucky i think, he still hasn't gotten any hint of justice really. The RCMP commissionor didnt step down because of this, he stepped down because he openly lied about it. Nobody else has come forward in the intelligence agencies about any of these cases either which is really troubling.

[Azalroth]

As much as I don't like hearing about fellow Canadians being tortured... I'd like to use a quote from Full Metal Jacket...

 

"Ain't War Hell!?"

[no yu begin wher i end]

Yeah, 'cause you know, torture plays such a vital role in intelligence-gathering, not to mention being condoned by the Geneva Convention.

[sockcrotch]

I'm happy to see how much publicity Mr. Arar has received this year.