Where Do U Stand

[Munk]

The NDP are way too socialist for me, and the Liberals are a tad too socialist for me also, and Harper's Conservatives are a bit too conservative for me. But i vote for the Conservatives because Canada is totally out of whack with logic and reality, which the Cons would help swing the balance back a little. Our justice systems is a joke & and lets criminals off with a slap on the wrist while giving them free university educations. Our military is non-functional & severely under-funded (the latest Liberal Budget is a lie). We let terrorist groups like Hezzebolah (sp?) live free in this country because "they've done nothing wrong".

;) You're nuts.

[Moonlight_Graham]

The NDP are way too socialist for me, and the Liberals are a tad too socialist for me also, and Harper's Conservatives are a bit too conservative for me.  But i vote for the Conservatives because Canada is totally out of whack with logic and reality, which the Cons would help swing the balance back a little.  Our justice systems is a joke & and lets criminals off with a slap on the wrist while giving them free university educations.  Our military is non-functional & severely under-funded (the latest Liberal Budget is a lie).  We let terrorist groups like Hezzebolah (sp?) live free in this country because "they've done nothing wrong".

;) You're nuts.

am I? how so?

[Munk]

1) There's no such thing as "way too" Socialist. But I'm sure you can explain that bit.

 

2) "because Canada is totally out of whack with logic and reality" would have to be explained, too.

 

3) People who've committed crimes [which is a huge generalization] shouldn't be incarcerated. It's a social issue, and the reasons they fell to crime should be addressed. Re-education and rehabilitation is the only logical progression. As well, why would a person who's committed a crime ever be denied all the liberties and freedoms of their country once they've done their time and had been rehabilitated?

 

4) Our military could use less funding. We have no need for it as an interjection force like the US seems to think, and as a nation we should stop imposing ourselves on neighboring countries. This will remove any reason to hate and attack us back. It's not our place to police the world, and we have the police to keep civil order.

 

5)

We let terrorist groups like Hezzebolah (sp?) live free in this country because "they've done nothing wrong".

The statement itself speaks volumes.

[TheKwas]

Lets not forget the fact that just about every economist that has studied both the Conservative and the NDP economic stances have come to the conclusion that the NDP is better balanced and will result in a surplus and economic stablitiy. While the Conservatives' had mixed reviews that were hardly reassuring. They current economic stance seems to be somewhere inbetween Friedmanism and military Keynesianism (Both which are horrid, even Keynes despised military Keynesianism and Friedmanism has proven not to work in both Chile and Britian, and that's not even taking into account the philosophical reasons why Friedmanism is wrong).

[Moonlight_Graham]

1) There's no such thing as "way too" Socialist. But I'm sure you can explain that bit.

 

The Liberals are socialist. The NDP are even moreso. Or call them more "liberal" or "left-leaning". Whatever you want. I think my point is clear, and arguing a word i say because it may or may not be technically correct is fallacious.

 

2) "because Canada is totally out of whack with logic and reality" would have to be explained, too.

 

Anton doesn't have enough server space to fit the entirety of this answer.

 

3) People who've committed crimes [which is a huge generalization] shouldn't be incarcerated. It's a social issue, and the reasons they fell to crime should be addressed. Re-education and rehabilitation is the only logical progression.

 

Not sure if i understand your 1st sentence. Do you think i said people who've committed crimes shouldn't be incarcerated (i never said that)? Or is that what you believe?

 

Yes i believe that the reasons why criminals fell to crime should be addressed & there should be some forms of rehab for them. But i also don't believe that an unremorseful, sick, cold-hearted killer like Karla Homolka should be given a free university education (which you and I pay for), while the rest of us have to work and pay for our own education. moronic.

 

As well, why would a person who's committed a crime ever be denied all the liberties and freedoms of their country once they've done their time and had been rehabilitated?

 

I never argued that and don't disagree.

 

4) Our military could use less funding. We have no need for it as an interjection force like the US seems to think, and as a nation we should stop imposing ourselves on neighboring countries.

 

Wow. Do you realize how decrepit our military has become? Our helicopters are 40 years old, haven't you seen the footage of the Sea-Kings crashing into the ocean while trying to take off? We don't have the ships to carry our own troops overseas for peacekeeping missions. Its a joke. We do have a need for a military. EVERY country needs a military. Why? To defend its sovereignty. We depend on the U.S. to protect us, and therefore we are their bitch. If we have at least SOME BASIC capability to defend ourselves, then we can regain some autonomy from the US, & "allies".

 

And do you really think we're currently militarily "imposing ourselves on neighboring countries"? Is that how you'd describe our anti-terrorist efforts in Afghanistan? Or how our peacekeepers helped in the Rwanda genocide?

 

This will remove any reason to hate and attack us back. It's not our place to police the world, and we have the police to keep civil order.

 

So its better to say/do nothing and be loved by all, than to stand up and do whats right and risk being hated/hurt by some? Wow thats courageous. A wonderful philosphy to live life, and for a country's foreign policy. Its not our place to police the world? Then who's is it? As English philosopher Edmund Burke once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

 

I don't want Canada to be a huge or agressive military power, but i'd like us to be able to defend ourselved in a basic way. And if we had any sort of military we would have some respect again in this world where our peaceful voice would have influence in world/U.N. matters.

 

from TheKwas:

Lets not forget the fact that just about every economist that has studied both the Conservative and the NDP economic stances have come to the conclusion that the NDP is better balanced and will result in a surplus and economic stablitiy.

 

Yeah after they raise our taxes 300%. And economical stability my butt. If this is "fact" as you say, may i see some evidence and/or links to these studies, preferably from a reputable media source?

[TheKwas]

Wow. Do you realize how decrepit our military has become? Our helicopters are 40 years old, haven't you seen the footage of the Sea-Kings crashing into the ocean while trying to take off? We don't have the ships to carry our own troops overseas for peacekeeping missions. Its a joke. We do have a need for a military. EVERY country needs a military. Why? To defend its sovereignty. We depend on the U.S. to protect us, and therefore we are their bitch. If we have at least SOME BASIC capability to defend ourselves, then we can regain some autonomy from the US, & "allies".

 

When was the last time I saw American troops doing anything for Canada? At the most we should get some Subs for the North and that's it. We don't have anyone to protect ourselves from, we're like big Iceland (A nation without a military, disproving your "every country needs a military" arguement, and there are plenty of other armyless examples as well) that isn't as enviromentally friendly. Also, I franky don't want to see Canada taking solo action in any Peacekeeping mission, so I see no problem with borrowing other people's boats. International problems and actions call for international co-operation.

 

If we cut all government spending on worthy "socialist" programs and raise the spending on military programs, we are heading in a military Keynesian direction. And if you aren't aware of the troubles that come with using Keynesain direct management viva the Military, then frankly I think you should stop talking with me and read a few books.

 

Yeah after they raise our taxes 300%. And economical stability my butt. If this is "fact" as you say, may i see some evidence and/or links to these studies, preferably from a reputable media source?

 

Did you pay attention to the election coverage at all? Numerous shows interviewed economist in regards to all the party's platforms. It was even mentioned during the debate. I have no clue if the reviews even exist online, let alone me being able to find them.

[Moonlight_Graham]

When was the last time I saw American troops doing anything for Canada?

 

As for troops themselves, like i said, we had to use their naval transports to transport our troops to Afghanistan (i believe that was the country). It was not a sign of friendly "international co-operation" as you say. It was a big news story at the time, and was viewed as an embarassment to our military. We don't even have the means to transport our own troops around the world where they need to go, which is a pretty basic military need.

 

As for the U.S. military doing anything for Canada? Well, they may not do a ton of things directly, but their mere presence as our geographic neighbours means that we use them for protection every day. Its like living in a house next to a cop; the cop doesn't walk up and down your driveway looking for burglars, but his mere presence provides security for your home & street. If Canada was located where Austrailia is, you'd bet we would have a much stronger military.

 

If we cut all government spending on worthy "socialist" programs and raise the spending on military programs, we are heading in a military Keynesian direction.

 

Like the gov't not paying for Karla Homolka's free university education? Yeah that would be a shame. I like most of the social programs Canada has and i don't really want most of them cut, but the gov't does waste a lot of money and stupid things.

[Matt]

The reason the U.S. has influence over us isn't because of our military, it's because 80 percent of our goods are imported to the U.S.

[Moonlight_Graham]

thats another part of it. Like the madcow crisis in Canada. We are the US's bitch because our farmers are losing tons of monye not being able to ship Canadian beef to the US.

[TheKwas]

As for troops themselves, like i said, we had to use their naval transports to transport our troops to Afghanistan (i believe that was the country). It was not a sign of friendly "international co-operation" as you say. It was a big news story at the time, and was viewed as an embarassment to our military. We don't even have the means to transport our own troops around the world where they need to go, which is a pretty basic military need.

We have no need to transport our own troops anywhere. Our military should be a self-defense thing. But we can still help other countries, but we must do it within a coalition of countries. You say it's an embarrassment, well it's only an embarassment if you think it's one. I think it's a good sign that we aren't able to start an offensive war on our own.

 

I don't want Canada running around the world on it's own.

 

Its like living in a house next to a cop; the cop doesn't walk up and down your driveway looking for burglars, but his mere presence provides security for your home & street.

 

So we should all become cops?

 

. If Canada was located where Austrailia is, you'd bet we would have a much stronger military.

 

I would hope not, the only real threat that Austrailia has are terrorists that want a united Oceania.

 

Even if we were in Austrailia's position, we would have a NEED for more military then. We don't have a need right now for military, and thus we should bother with one.

 

Like the gov't not paying for Karla Homolka's free university education?

 

I'll admit that I'm against free University education, but that said our student loans program has to be supported ALOT more and completely interest-free.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Kwas, all i'm saying is that Canada needs basic military funding to give a slight upgrade to what we have now (which is a joke). Thowing money around gets votes, which is why the Liberals have taken funding from our military budget (among other things) and funneled it to other programs....leaving our military in a decripid state.

 

Its really that bad. We either need to fix some of the holes we have in our military, or just scrap it altogether because its barely functional now. And as i said, i think a country like Canada needs at least some basic military defense.

 

I don't want us to be a large military force, i just want our soldiers to fly their helicopters without them crashing into the sea (ie: Sea-King helicopters). If you never heard of that Sea King accident, here's the news link: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/27/iroquois_crash030227

 

In the article, the NDP even agree we need to upgrade our 40-year old helicopters:

Even the NDP, which has spoken out against expanding Canada's military role in the Middle East, said the accident emphasizes the need to make sure that Canada gets newer, safer aircraft for its defence staff. "It's a national disgrace, the fact that it's taken 10 years for the Liberals to make up their minds," said NDP defence critic Bill Blaikie.

[TheKwas]

Unforunatly I consider the NDP nothing more than a party to vote due to lack of real parties.

[Munk]

Unforunatly indeed.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Unforunatly I consider the NDP nothing more than a party to vote due to lack of real parties.

thats usually how most people vote, including me, unfortunately.

[Matt]

The "Liberals" are a real party, and they've managed the country pretty well too.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

Yeah, funnelling millions to their cronies in Quebec is great management.

[Matt]

What about all the good they've done? On social issues and what not, even the other parties would have problems like the "Liberals" too since no one is perfect.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

Of course no one is perfect. But doing some good things doesn't cancel out rabid corruption.

[Munk]

I wouldn't mind getting that list of good/bad things the Liberals have done.

[Matt]

Of course no one is perfect. But doing some good things doesn't cancel out rabid corruption.

But, the other parties could have had the same thing happen to them as well.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

It didn't "happen" to them. The Libs are corrupt. They brought it on themselves.

[Matt]

How do you know it didn't happen to them? Is the inquiry finished? No, so maybe it's not that the Liberals are corrupt, but one or two people are corrupt. Which can happen to any party.

[Moonlight_Graham]

The "Liberals" are a real party, and they've managed the country pretty well too.

don't the read the newspapers i take it?

[Matt]

I read the newspapers, but my point is that the inquiry isn't finished, and it's too early to say who's at fault for the scandal beyond some people in the "Liberals".

[Bizud]

If you want what the Conservatives are promising, vote Conservative. If you want what the Liberals are promising, vote NDP.