Not All Deaths Are The Same...

[juanpe]

London bombings - London remembers

Millions of Londoners observed a two minute silence to remember those who died in last Thursday's bomb attacks.

 

 

and also all over the world...

 

and what about the 26 kids who died in Iraq a couple of days ago?

 

and what about all the Iraquis who have died since the USA and UK invaded the country?

 

and what about all the people who are dying of hunger in Africa and in many other places in the world?

 

 

there are no "two-minute rememberance" for them?

 

the world is crazy, but not all deaths are the same...

[supercanuk]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

[ecnarf]

The best thing about being white is that when you get kidnapped, die, or runaway the night before your marriage, it will make headlines for weeks.

[mikebutt]

The best thing about being white is that when you get kidnapped, die, or runaway the night before your marriage, it will make headlines for weeks.

And pretty. You have to look pretty too. It makes me sick actually. If Schappelle Corby weren't hot, no one would have given a fuck.

[sancco]

lol i don't think that's the case, but still, as far as media and the rich/famous go, hell yeah. sucks balls but moping isnt gonna achieve anything

[calm2chaos]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

So let me get this right. You don't see the difference ( other then the obvious) Of two kids walking into a school armed to the teeth with weapons and bombs. And a random shooting on the street. All that and you come up with white black is the red flag.. Thats just brilliant...

[supercanuk]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

So let me get this right. You don't see the difference ( other then the obvious) Of two kids walking into a school armed to the teeth with weapons and bombs. And a random shooting on the street. All that and you come up with white black is the red flag.. Thats just brilliant...

I am not talking about shootings on the street i am talking about inner city schools. I was paralleling why we make such massive claims about one thing, and so little of another. Maybe the reason why you can't see that, is because the media focuses on one thing, giving it priority over another, and haven

Edited July 15, 2005 by supercanuk

[calm2chaos]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

So let me get this right. You don't see the difference ( other then the obvious) Of two kids walking into a school armed to the teeth with weapons and bombs. And a random shooting on the street. All that and you come up with white black is the red flag.. Thats just brilliant...

I am not talking about shootings on the street i am talking about inner city schools. I was paralleling why we make such massive claims about one thing, and so little of another. Maybe the reason why you can't see that, is because the media focuses on one thing, giving it priority over another, and haven

Edited July 15, 2005 by calm2chaos

[aloha_joe]

the reason America has both A) such a large prison population (i believe between 2 and 3 million now...) and B) such a predominantly black prison population is not violent crime, and not in particular murders and shootings. The vast majority of convicted criminals in the US are for drugs charges, particularly given some states' use of a "3 Strikes" policy, in which three criminal charges of any type can amount to severe (up to 'life') penalties. Also, drugs used more by blacks, such as crack and heroin, are punished more severely than cocaine, a drug more used by whites. There are structural ineqwuities behind the prison demographics; that being said, Columbine is a trajedy - what i find remarkable about this sort of discussion is that it's ok if over 50,000 people die every year in car accidents. That makes it pretty dangerous, yet it's sold as if it were our right and duty to have so much fun driving fast in fancy cars on the road. Oh well. That's just me.

Edited July 15, 2005 by aloha_joe

[calm2chaos]

the reason America has both A) such a large prison population (i believe between 2 and 3 million now...) and B) such a predominantly black prison population is not violent crime, and not in particular murders and shootings. The vast majority of convicted criminals in the US are for drugs charges, particularly given some states' use of a "3 Strikes" policy, in which three criminal charges of any type can amount to severe (up to 'life') penalties. Also, drugs used more by blacks, such as crack and heroin, are punished more severely than cocaine, a drug more used by whites. There are structural ineqwuities behind the prison demographics; that being said, Columbine is a trajedy - what i find remarkable about this sort of discussion is that it's ok if over 50,000 people die every year in car accidents. That makes it pretty dangerous, yet it's sold as if it were our right and duty to have so much fun driving fast in fancy cars on the road. Oh well. That's just me.

The easiest solution is to NOT break the law.

[aloha_joe]

see, here's where the sociologist in me has to come out: not everybody has the same opportunities as everyone else. Yes, being white, lower-middle class (where the "middle class" actually is is higher than most people realize) and living in Canada made it easy for me to not break the law. I had easy opportunities to go to college (which I did) or work minimum-wage jobs as a teenager that would [A] give me a decent amount of spending money and something to do to keep me out of trouble (because most things cost money to do - even sports require equipment and league fees, etc.).

 

Being born into a lower socio-economic status makes it harder to stay out of trouble - trouble is all around. Alcoholism and drugs are more common and more availible. You're less likely to get hired and less likely to see upward mobility. I'm not saying this is always the case, but to avoid the troubles and gain the rewards takes a lot more hard work and dedication. The temptation of earning hundreds or thousands a day selling drugs could seem like a good option in comparison to struggling for a pittance at a legitimate job. Especially in the midst of a culture that rewards, praises, and fetishizes success, money, and power. So the "easy solution" of not breaking the law may not be as easy as it was for you or I.

Edited July 15, 2005 by aloha_joe

[supercanuk]

I too tend to take a sociological perspective to most social problems, as I am planning on taking my masters in sociology. That being said, I am so glad to not be alone. But using our "sociological imagination" as Mills once so aptly put, we must look at the social inequalities that are predominantly obvious in inner city schools. This is why i made such a parallel, there are not the same oppourtunities given to people of lower incomes then those who are born into midle class ( even lower middle clas) and upper classes have. This is also why I used Columbine as an example because it was an area of middle class (dominantly)neighborhoods and families. Living in poverty does a lot to a person and sometimes "just saying no" (thank you mrs. Regan) is easier said then done. In addition to this, living in poverty does a lot to social upward mobility, in which it is limited. Much more limited then I think most people realize. Onto what Aloha Joe said about drugs I couldn't have put the drug issue better, i totally agree.

Edited July 15, 2005 by supercanuk

[aloha_joe]

And what many people who don't realize these facts do is to individualize the issue -yes, sure, Colin Powell grew up in the bad end of town and became the secretary of state - good for him; he worked hard, kept his nose clean, JOINED THE ARMY (a commonly used path "out" of the lower class). It doesn't mean it was easy - the fact that he made it that far does not mean he is the equal of Warren Christopher - it makes him better, as Powell had farther to go against greater resistance.

 

Such individual examples don't disprove institutionalized racism, what is essentially one (of many) root causes of inequity, but merely distract from the overall issue.

 

(p.s. where you going for your masters?)

[supercanuk]

Yah prime example Aloha, and becuase Colin Powell did "make it" so to speak out of poverty he is ONE in the millions of others that join the army, get injured, and then get out of the army expecting to be taken care of and get screwed over. That was definatly a good example, showing that one or two influential people made it, does not disprove institutional racism which is still dominant in our cultures. Both in America and Canada, currently im studying Law at Carleton University, going to a masters possibly at U of T or York, but I was also thinking Brock just because mainly i like nice weather and St.Catherines is pretty nice!

[aloha_joe]

Hey, I think we scared off Mr. "easiest solution is to NOT break the law." hehe. excellent.

 

 

 

Cool - I always hear good things about soc at UofT...not that York or Brock aren't good, it's just that UofT gets press and all their grads have huge mouths on them ;)

 

p.s. sorry to any small-mouthed UofT grads, but you know you had it coming. : B)

[supercanuk]

Hey, I think we scared off Mr. "easiest solution is to NOT break the law." hehe. excellent.

 

 

 

Cool - I always hear good things about soc at UofT...not that York or Brock aren't good, it's just that UofT gets press and all their grads have huge mouths on them ;)

 

p.s. sorry to any small-mouthed UofT grads, but you know you had it coming. : B)

hehe yes i think we did, yah my prof is all about U of T, probably since he went there, but yah he told me he'd give me a recommendation so i might just go there, but nice weather is nice weather haha! Just out of curiosity where did/do you go to school?

[aloha_joe]

well, I just graduated from University of Victoria (BA major in sociology, minor in geography); now I'm trying to figure out my next move, probably towards city planning in some form (which likely requires between 2 and 27 years of more schooling ;))

[supercanuk]

well, I just graduated from University of Victoria (BA major in sociology, minor in geography); now I'm trying to figure out my next move, probably towards city planning in some form (which likely requires between 2 and 27 years of more schooling ;))

Very cool dude, yah if my parents move out to Brittish Columbia in the next 5-7 years which they are planning i was thinking of taking a P.h.d at UBC so that I can stay close to them, but that is if i even get that far lol. I feel in love with B.C. the first time i went when i was 16. I have many master plans as i am sure you can tell! haha

Edited July 16, 2005 by supercanuk

[ecnarf]

B.C. has got to be the most beautiful province in Canada. I love the skiing there.

[supercanuk]

B.C. has got to be the most beautiful province in Canada. I love the skiing there.

Agreed.

65435132

[juanpe]

when is all this gonna stop? ;) These ones don't deserve a two minute silence to remember, either? ...

 

80 dead in Iraq suicide bombings

 

Sunday, July 17, 2005; Posted: 6:04 a.m. EDT (10:04 GMT)

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- At least 80 people have been killed and more than 180 injured in a fresh wave of suicide bombings in Iraq, including a fuel tanker attack south of Baghdad.

Edited July 17, 2005 by juanpe

[mikebutt]

Thats the thing that really gets me. People are killed all the time in Iraq and large attacks on the scale of the London bombings happen every few months or so, but its just regarded as current events as usual. When something happens in London or Madrid its supposed to be some kind of grand tragedy.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

When a tragedy affects people in your own country, you are going to care more about it. It just hits home more & is more personal, which is a natural reaction. I'm going to be more concerned if 100 people die in an tornado in Canada than if the same # died of a tornado in Japan or the U.S., or example.

 

For London'ers, they had their 2 minutes of silence for their fallen. We in Canada didn't have a moment of silence, nor did any other country that i know of. But i feel just as bad when i hear of people in London dying via terrorists as a i do those 80 people dying in Iraq, or all the people dying in Africa of hunger, or someone i see dead in the obituaries in my local newspaper. I feel about equally bad for all them, unless someone has an extrodinatry amount of suffering.

 

We can't have a moment of silence for everyone who dies because we'd be standing around forever. But for London'ers, the terrorist attacks was a special tragedy...much different than a neighbour dying of cancer.

 

How much people care about someone else dying i think just depends on how personally it affects them, how aware they are of the deaths (media etc.), and how tragic the circumstances.

[heyrabbit]

It's pretty simple really. Criminals generally don't just become criminals for kicks. Prostitutes don't just sell themselves because they're lazy dirty sluts. There are reasons why people do bad things. Freud knew what he was talking about. Childhood experiences totally form who you are as a human being. It's going to have an affect on you when you grow up being poor, beaten or sexually abused.

Every school has one of those classic bullies. My school had one. His father was a fuckin asshole. Chances are HIS father was an asshole too.

 

Anyway,the original point of this thread was about what the media chooses to report on. That's also totally simple to understand.News media are only going to report on things that people want to hear about. It'd developed over the years into more of a form of entertainment than actually news. Do you think that every story that makes the front pages is the most newsworthy? Fuck no.

 

There's a reason why CNN spent days reporting on Jessica Lynch the U.S. Marine that was captured. She was blonde, good looking, and the story was romantic and sensational. She was saved in the middle of the night from the evil Iraqi hospital ( who, by the way, actually gave her better treatment than anyone else there.)

 

There's a reason why CNN spent days reporting on that girl who went missing while on a school trip to Aruba. People go missing all the time so why report on her? She was young, blonde, beautiful. She was probably sexually abused. That's why.

 

People don't want to hear about how many Iraqi's died today. They also don't want to hear about, or see footage of starving Africans.

[supercanuk]

Yah that became extreamely clear to me several years ago. Our society dictates this psychotic opinion that white life, and quite often rich life, means so much more. Prime example, with Columbine, a bunch of white, middle class kids shot other kids. The nation is up in arms, but of course for many many years before, lots of inner city kids have been killing each other. It doesnt become a crisis until the rich and sometime white (not always) are the ones who are being affected. Quite simply it makes me sick.

When a tragedy affects people in your own country, you are going to care more about it. It just hits home more & is more personal, which is a natural reaction. I'm going to be more concerned if 100 people die in an tornado in Canada than if the same # died of a tornado in Japan or the U.S., or example.

 

For London'ers, they had their 2 minutes of silence for their fallen. We in Canada didn't have a moment of silence, nor did any other country that i know of. But i feel just as bad when i hear of people in London dying via terrorists as a i do those 80 people dying in Iraq, or all the people dying in Africa of hunger, or someone i see dead in the obituaries in my local newspaper. I feel about equally bad for all them, unless someone has an extrodinatry amount of suffering.

 

We can't have a moment of silence for everyone who dies because we'd be standing around forever. But for London'ers, the terrorist attacks was a special tragedy...much different than a neighbour dying of cancer.

 

How much people care about someone else dying i think just depends on how personally it affects them, how aware they are of the deaths (media etc.), and how tragic the circumstances.

You do realize im not comparing US and international news, i understand it would not hit us better. I was comparing middle class american news with inner city (within the US) news. How one school shooting is bigger then another and why and etc etc. I wasnt comparing UK tragety's to UK ones.