Prisoners Voting

[Ravenous itchy]

I'm gonna stick to the voting here. I see it sort of like this: if a person isn't responsible enough to obey the law, how are they responsible enough to vote? I don't know what your opinion is on children (legally, <18) being able to vote (and this isn't to compare criminals to children) but voting is a (rather large, in my opinion) responsibility that should not be taken lightly, thus it is kept from children until they are adults (theoretically, ready for it). I live in res at the university I go to, and I really get bothered when people I hang out with say stuff like "Im just gonna check off whoever" because I see democracy as a pretty important thing. I think I'm sort of off track here; I think what I am trying to get at is the punishment of being sent to prison (even the nice ones like you mentioned) is given because a person has shown that they can't be trusted to be a member of society. How then can they be trusted with deciding how our society should be run?

[Bizud]

Prisoners have rights too. If rights are forfeited by committing a criminal act, they're not really rights. I have rights that no state authority may legitimately deprive me of. What about you people? Do you have rights, or do you have privileges granted to you by society?

 

The reason prisoners get a say in electing our government is because they are bound by the laws our government makes. That is the essence of democracy. There is no grey area about "universal suffrage." It's either universal or it isn't.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Bizud

[borntohula]

How then can they be trusted with deciding how our society should be run?

because you're forgetting that they're members of the society as well. they aren't outcasts, they arent different than you or i. that's what im trying to explain. they've committed crimes, but as soon as they walk through those prison walls, you've got to move on. that is the punishment. they're paying for their actions while being in those walls, but theyre still apart of our society. when they become an inmate, everything is taken from them. their job, family, and way of life. i think the removal of the convicted from those three things is punishment enough. to dehumanize them further has no punitive purpose!! sure, they are sent to prison because they "can't be trusted as a member of society" but if the goal of incarceration is to fix that problem, to correct it, then i think we can start to trust them once they go through this process.

 

the assumption that inmates don't take voting seriously when given the option, is a dangerous one, and i'd like you to reconsider.

 

doesn't the ability to vote spark one's interest in politics? the average canadian gets most of his or her political news from the television and the newspaper. mediums that the average inmate has access to as well. they have the same access to information as you or i might. whether they actually vote or not is up to them, which is the same situation that we non-incarcerated individuals face. you can't force people to vote and saying that they're more apathetic than we are is just another shoddy attempt to distance "us" from "them". they are equal to us, that's what makes this democratic.

[josiegross]

when they become an inmate, everything is taken from them. their job, family, and way of life.

 

 

 

i have to say that it kind of worries me the way that you tend to speak of prisoners like they're victims.

[borntohula]

well i was just expressing the point of view that taking away EVERYTHING does not help them turn into better people.

 

the idea that you seem to be pushing is solely punitive. when does the punishment end in your ideal corrections program? it doesn't. who does that help? no one. it's a nice waste of money.

 

i think they deserve to be treated like human beings.

Edited January 20, 2006 by borntohula

[Spritzup]

because you're forgetting that they're members of the society as well. they aren't outcasts, they arent different than you or i.

You've said this in a few of your posts now. And they are different than you and I. They've broken the laws we as a society have put forth. Foreign diplomats have just as much right to vote in our elections as a prisoner does. In my opinion.

 

Oh and Josie makes a good point.

[josiegross]

born to hula:

 

i wholeheartedly agree that prisoners should be treated like human beings. they ARE human beings.

 

when does the punishment end in your ideal corrections program? it doesn't.

it ends when the time is up. the punishment ends when you've served your sentence. we don't put people in jail for rehabilitation. the court doesn't say "i recommend you spend twenty five years to life being rehabilitated" the court says "you are a danger to the freedom and safety of law abiding citizens and you need to be removed from society for a period of time until we feel safe". the rehabilitation of criminals is the responsibility of the CRIMINAL not the responsibility of the society it has wronged. if that were the case no one would be rehabilitated. you know, "the first step is admitting you have a problem"? criminals are rehabilitated because they see what they've done is wrong and they choose accordingly to make changes in their lives. prison is a punishment, not a detox center, not a psych ward, not a rehabilitation centre.

[Moonlight_Graham]

I think prison should be for punishment & paying back their debt to society (1st priority), and also rehabilatation (2nd priority). You want prisoners to be punished for their crimes, to not really enjoy their time in prison as a deterent to not break the law again, and also get some help for when they are re-released back into normal society to avoid them doing something bad that gets them sent back in prison.

 

I disagree with the thinking of criminals as victims. Yes, they may have had a troubled childhood. Yes, they may have grown up in poverty. But nobody FORCED these people to break they law. People need to be held 100% responsible for their own actions.

 

At the age of 18 our society thinks a person is smart/wise/capable enough to make good decisions, and knows the difference between right and wrong enough so that said person is given the right to vote, along with most all the other rights afforded to adults. Now, if a person over age 18 breaks the law & aren't responsible enough to follow society's rules, is it unfair to say these people aren't responsible enought - or shouldn't be allowed - to have a say in the making of society's laws and rules (ie: voting).

 

Rehab is good, but you can go overboard. While in prison, Karla Homolka recieved a free degree from Queen's University...in psychology. Nothing wrong with educating prisoners, but why are we paying for psychopaths to get degrees from our best schools like Queen's? Why not from a regular, less expensive school?

 

We have very lax prison sentances & laws in Canada, but thats anothetr topic.

 

As for the death penalty, i don't support it. I don't think we should have the right to say when a person's life should end. Also, if a person murdered by parents i'd rather that person rot in jail for the rest of their life and work their fingers to the bone everyday as punishment, rather than the state kill them. Seems like the easy way out & a waste. Why not have the criminal dig roads & crush rock for the rest of their lives and actually give something back to society rather than killing them?

[ham_ahoy]

they should still have the right....

[Moonlight_Graham]

lets just burn all our prisoners and we won't have to worry about it!

[ecnarf]

lets just burn all our jews and we won't have to worry about it!

I like your attitude.

[josiegross]

what makes a civilized society?

 

 

civ

Edited January 23, 2006 by josiegross

[Moonlight_Graham]

I like your sexy bottom.

thank you!

[ecnarf]

The sad part is, he's right.

[Russell]

Since prisioners are most likely to vote Liberal and not Conservative, I say let them vote!

[ecnarf]

Since prisioners are most likely to vote Liberal and not Conservative, I say let them vote!

Uh... huh...