Octranspo Strike

[Azalroth]

I was wondering what everyone here thought about the public transit strike here in Ottawa from the Amalgamated Transit Union 279.

 

Source

 

Take a listen

Andre Cornellier - Union Rep

Andre Cornellier - Union Rep - Take 2

 

 

The main unresolved issues are wages, scheduling, sick leave and contracting out work.

 

The city is offering a three-year deal with three-, two- and two-per-cent wage increases in each year, retroactive to April 1st and a one-time $2,000 signing bonus to each member.

 

The union is proposing a three-year contract with increases of 3.5 per cent in each year and has said they will not accept smaller wage increases than other city unions have received recently, which are minimum three per cent per year.

 

The city is proposing to take some scheduling control away from workers in order to run operations more efficiently, while saying it will respect booking seniority rights. The union wants to maintain the current scheduling practices.

 

Transit Strike - CBC

 

I went looking for their demands and they don't seem to be documented anywhere. From what I gather their biggest concern is the face that they don't get to choose their shift on a daily basis by seniority, also they wish to be treated like the other city unions. They have told us a few times it's not about the money, yet above shows a different story since they are requesting a 3.5% raise each year.

 

Not sure about some of you but I'd like a 7% raise over 3 years while I'm already working $25-$45/hr. Seniority shifts are bullshit anyway, most people working in the world are handed their shift by their boss and that's final.

 

They have no support from the public.

[RicardoObviouso]

firstly, seniority rights are bullshit. it promotes slacking and poor work ethic from senior members on the basis that they are guaranteed hours while the new members who are less likely to dick around are not.

 

unions in and of themselves have been ruined by members who think and act as if they are untouchable. it's one thing to be protected by your brothers, it's another to take gross advantage of it.

 

az - the reason why they're asking for 3.5% adjustments in salary per year is because thats around the rate of inflation. if the cost of living increases by 3-4 percent ever year. effectively, they're making less year over year without it. what they're asking for is parity with inflationary costs.

 

let's say year one is an average salary of $65,000. year two is $67,275 and year three is $69,629. sure, they've seen a four thousand dollar increase in salary over three years, but the cost of living has increased in such a way that it may cost over $90 more each month to maintain the same lifestyle.

Edited December 10, 2008 by BOHICA

[RicardoObviouso]

i had a feeling there wouldnt be any more responses.

[Azalroth]

Yea....lame....any mod wishes to delete go for it...

[hum-an-ole]

i didn't even notice this thread. i don't really have anything additional to contribute though.

[garsk]

well, there is only you, me, lauren and colin that really post here that live in ottawa. and colin has a car, so this thread isn't really going anyway.

[RicardoObviouso]

i dont live in ottawa or take public transit. it's no excuse.

[Azalroth]

Thanks BOHICA.

 

I thought this was a reasonable thread, was just wondering what others thought about it. Also trying to show how much of a bad Andre Cornellier is at being a Union Representative.

[Sparq]

It's causing major delays to my commute, even though I do have a car. My supervisor is essentially stuck working from home until it ends, because it paralyses the core at rush hour and makes it a two and a half hour commute to pick him up on the way. Part of that paralysis is caused by idiot drivers, of course - do not enter the intersection if you can't get all the way trhough before the next light cycle.

 

Anyway, the main sticking point seems to be that they want to keep the union-booked scheduals instead of going back to having them booked by the city. At least, that's what they claim is keeping them away from the bargaining table. But - if the media is to be believed in this instance - they are currently the only union in North America, Europe, or Australia who has this system.

[Lauren]

its making my life so hard.

[garsk]

it is making my easier in a way, cause my boss is driving me into work, and i get to sleep in a bit more.

[Seanathon]

firstly, seniority rights are bullshit. it promotes slacking and poor work ethic from senior members on the basis that they are guaranteed hours while the new members who are less likely to dick around are not.

 

unions in and of themselves have been ruined by members who think and act as if they are untouchable. it's one thing to be protected by your brothers, it's another to take gross advantage of it.

 

az - the reason why they're asking for 3.5% adjustments in salary per year is because thats around the rate of inflation. if the cost of living increases by 3-4 percent ever year. effectively, they're making less year over year without it. what they're asking for is parity with inflationary costs.

 

let's say year one is an average salary of $65,000. year two is $67,275 and year three is $69,629. sure, they've seen a four thousand dollar increase in salary over three years, but the cost of living has increased in such a way that it may cost over $90 more each month to maintain the same lifestyle.

I agree with you on the seniority thing.

And I also understand why they're asking for the 3.5% raises, it's just hard for your everyday worker, who chances are, rides the bus to work, to accept. Especially when they're already making $25-$30+ an hour, as they do where I live.

I'm not sure I have a point here, but the debate has come up about making them an essential service, so that they can't completely shut down while striking and cripple the city.

[Lauren]

the city can't make it an essential service because the bus leaves ottawa region to go to hull. also, the main issue now is which level of management does the scheduling (i'm not sure what scheduling). ottawa wants to keep it the way it is, which the higher ups making whatever schedule they are fighting about, while lower downs want the lower management to make the schedules. while the latter makes sense (as it was explained to me, the former is like a home depot employee getting a paycheck not from their branch, but from their head office in toronto), it is not practiced in any other city in the country - probably for a reason.

 

 

in the mean time, i can't get anywhere to get anyone presents, i have to pay to cab anywhere i want to go which i cannot afford. i can't get to work or school without a serious trek or paying for a cab.

[Sparq]

Gotta pick my supervisor guy up at Rideau centre tomorrow morning. Besserer is constantly jammed these days because of the strike and idiot drivers, so I'll be running an alternate route back to Nicholas. Wish me luck, if you believe in it. If not, welcome aboard.

[Lauren]

you should leave work at 330 so you can drive me to work at 4. or at least pick me up and drive me home at 930.

 

today is absolutely horrendous for pedestrians... so of course i have to have an exam and work today. its rain and ice everywhere.

[Azalroth]

I'm glad I don't have to go too far to get to work, if I absolutely had to I could walk 25-40min (depending on weather) to work or get a ride with JTB, depending on our shifts. The draw back is I don't get to see my girlfriend as much because she lives on the other side of town.

[Lauren]

update: buses are still on strike.

 

mr. mayor has asked the minister of labour to force the union members to vote on the matter, as their representative wouldn't let them before. they do this on the 9th, and if they vote to end the strike, it will be at least a week until the buses are running again.

 

to me, it means more old people won't be able to socialize, people can't get to work and students cant get to school. or anywhere else. people are spending grocery money on cabs so they can make more money to give to the cabs. i personally am living on 15 dollars until i get paid on friday. luckily i can walk and my boss is understanding. she isn't giving me pointless 3 hour shifts and she is avoiding scheduling me early in the morning or late into the night so i will be able to walk. stupid buses.

[Moonlight_Graham]

These bus drivers are DICKS!! if you are an OC bus driver and you're reading this YOU'RE A DICKFACE!!! i don't use the bus right now, but i know there are many people who are living in poverty in Ottawa and need the bus to get to food banks and other services. These people don't have cars. I feel for the single-mother of 3 who's living off a welfare cheque. I feel for the old lady who's got the flu but can't get to a doctor to get it checked.

 

FUCK YOU BUS DRIVERS!! $25+ for driving a bus, plus whatever benefits i'm sure you get. YOU. DRIVE. A. FUCKING. BUS.!!!!!!!! Yet you're getting paid like someone who spent years in university/college to acquire skills.

 

IMO, public buses should be deemed an essential service by the city and therefore union strikes should be unlawful. Either that, or make the busing a private enterprise to get rid of the union.

[Lauren]

the city can't make it an essential service because the bus leaves ottawa region to go to hull.

[Azalroth]

Yea I know I've heard that a few times but who makes that rule, where is that written down and who is stopping the city from making it an essential service anyway. I think that ruling is bullshit

 

 

EDIT:

Ottawa Supports Mayor

Survey conducted for city hall shows 70% side with gov

Edited January 8, 2009 by Azalroth

[bishopx]

You know, I've been reading this thread, and watching the news updates on this. You all have a damned good reason to be angry. Having lived in a state that had a major drivers strike some time ago, and having also been a union member during a strike not too long after that, I submit this:

 

The average union member pays their dues, and is a member because they have no choice. You go to work in a union facility, you have to be a member. Now here's the beautiful thing...Unions here work just like congress...you have duly elected representatives...who may or may not have your best interests at heart. Meaning they may vote in favor of something that those who elected them may not want. Most strikes are premeditated by Union leadership...an obvious sign of this is a dues hike, to build a warchest, so that they can dole out pittances to keep the sheep on board. Along with this, a mob mentality is used to keep those few who might question the the decision, grazing with the rest of flock.

 

So while I agree with all of your anger, the average every day bus driver is really just caught up in the undertow of the mob. They pay their dues, and they go along because that's the way it is.

 

The real targets for your anger and frustration are the City gov't officials who knew this was coming from a mile away and let it get to this point, and the Union Leaders, who at some point became not so much a part of the worker base, but political hacks who get paid no matter what happens.

 

You can be angry at them for being supposedly overpaid...but when you think about it, a job ain't nuthin but work. So yes, maybe they want a little more, but it's nothing anyone of us wouldn't want. Lauren and Moonlight, if you had to deal with rude people all day, people puking, shitting, and pissing where you work, wouldn't you feel you deserved more? I've seen some fucked up shit on Mass Transit. I know Canada is a lot more kind and gentle than the US, but being a bus driver ain't the best job in the world, no matter where you are. It's a dead end fucking job, with very few prospects...that people with families have to take.

 

People in services type jobs, like transportation or food, are all that stand between us and having to figure out how to do shit ourselves. It's why I don't give the kid at McDonalds a hard time when my food isn't right, it's why I put a gift card in the mail box for the postwoman, it's why I take the time to learn the name of the women at my drycleaners. Because whether it's a shitty job or not, they still deserve our respect and appreciation. I'm a notoriously generous tipper, because I know waitstaff bust there asses and depend on it, and when it shows, you take care of them. I say thank you when I go through a tollbooth, or get off the bus, because I appreciate that person doing their job.

 

Lauren you work in a store don't you? Then you know what I'm talking about. You're an intelligent, conscientious, and responsible person and if it wasn't you behind that counter taking pride in your work, then who would it be? Would they apply the same attitude. Even after the cigarette incident, you still talk about your job without being negative. I bet there are people mixed in with the stupid, smartassed kids who say thank you, when you've served them.

 

I didn't mean to get off on a rant...just my opinion

[Azalroth]

Newest Contract Turned Down

They can't even agree on the percentage that the contract was voted down...

 

 

I work in a service industry as well, maybe not face to face with the customers but I still work with people...a lot. I have to deal with technicians and end users over the phone. I knew what the job entails, as I'm sure the Bus Drivers did when they started. It's hard to not notice the fact that the general public is a pain in the ass to deal with, I respect the drivers in their job but I don't respect them in their greed. They are the highest paid transit workers in Ontario, if not Canada (And no I don't have facts on this, just going on hearsay).

 

Normal Bus: $3 a ride/~$80 month pass

Express: $4 a ride/~$100 month pass

 

I'm not happy with the city for their decision to not pursue the Essential Service idea that OcTranspo brought to them months ago, that was the first sign that things were going to go this far. I'm also not happy with the bus drivers for turning down these great contracts, sure they might be following the mob mentality but THEY have the power to stop this strike. We don't. The people are the ones who are getting screwed. I have a room mate that hasn't been able to get to work for 3 weeks because he has no way to get there, he also has to walk an hour to and from school just to show up to class.

 

This is also affecting charities and food drives as people aren't able to get to the facilities that are housing these events, they were located in areas with high public transit routes. The people who need these facilities can't afford cabs, don't have cars and are otherwise not able to get the food they need. I personally am not in need of these facilities but the strike has stopped me from getting groceries normally and seeing my girlfriend (I only see her once a week now).

 

Needless to say I don't agree with the strike and I don't support it in the least. I'm really interested in how the first week they come back is going to go.

[bishopx]

I can totally see things from your perspective, Az. I'm not saying the drivers are completely blameless. Just saying that there is way more to it than their greed. I personally think, when an agreement is reached, things will go back to status quo quickly. They usually do in these situations. If the City and the Bus service were smart...they'd offer discounted service...or one or two days of free service to ease things back to normal/mend fences with the public.

 

Again...in union situations, the everyday dues paying schmoe is just a fucking sheep. The Union Leaders dangle carrots to push the agenda...ie..."Hey we can get you a raise, just go along with this"

[Azalroth]

Which is why I put most of the blame on Andre Cornellier, since he's their rep. The union members weren't given the choice to vote on most of the previous contract offers because he kept it from them.

 

They are apparently going to grant discounts on the bus passes if you show your previous bus pass for the month of December. Although at this rate I think I'm just going to buy bus tickets and not spend the $80 on bus passes every month as I've found ways to avoid the buses going to work. This seems to be the way things are going, a lot of bus riders are finding alternate transportation...even cycling in the winter. Hell I even saw a dog sled yesterday on the side walks, team of 6 dogs. I personally get a ride with JTB and I also walk to work on the decent days, probably continue that for the rest of winter.

[bishopx]

I was very lucky the year we had our bus strike. I was a Jr. in HS, and it was winter. We had a pretty mild winter that year. So as long as I dressed warm, and there was no ice...I rode my motorcycle, and on days it wasn't safe to ride, I caught rides with friends.

 

You've got the right idea to lessen your dependency on it.