Universal Healthcare In America?

[marx marvelous]

Feel free to chime in as well, Canadians... I'm sure you all have an opinion on this. ;) My vote personally goes to providing healthcare for children and the poor, as I feel health is a right and not a commodity. However, I think healthcare for all citizens is unwise, economically, as there are lots of people (like myself) who just don't need the assistance.

 

Feel free to blast my opinion out of the water.

[Matt]

The difficulty with a two-tiered system is that not everyone neccessarily has access to the same doctors as everyone else.

[soundless_space]

In theory, it would be great. I'm all for it. But you have to remember Canadians pay taxes out the wazoo, and the healthcare isn't really that great. (Or so I'm told.)

Edited February 2, 2007 by soundless_space

[Crusader]

It could be better, we just keep cutting out the services and raising the prices. Too many doctors are in it for the money.

 

edit: there aren't that many americans on the bored lol.

[no yu begin wher i end]

Doesn't Layton support a two-tiered system? Currently, the government actually helps private clinics out, which is something he said he'd put a stop to. I think that without that extra spending, the government could better focus on the public tier.

[bishopx]

Here's why it won't happen...it would eliminate Insurance companies...that's a lot of money that people on all sides won't be making...greed will not allow it. The Companies, the medical personnel, the politicians...our current healthcare system is juggernaut that will not be stopped.

 

But I would truly like it if it did happen. It change so many things.

Edited February 2, 2007 by bishopx

[marx marvelous]

I don't know, Charles. The current Democratic Congress seems pretty bent on passing some form of subsidized healthcare, and if the Republicans lose the executive branch in '08, what would stop them? I went to see John Edwards speak on Tuesday, and he mentioned the importance of universal healthcare and that he was going to unveil a comprehensive plan either this month or the next. He seems a pretty likely candidate to me.

[Matt]

It's either pay a bit of extra in taxes or pay for and receive less from an insurance company.

 

Also, Anton, the problem is that the Feds keep passing the buck onto the provinces, BC pays something like 84-86 percent of the bill, so of course, there's going to be some cut backs, because it's just not feasible for Provincial governments to pay for it all. However, when one of the Regional Authorities tried to make cut backs at the expense of surgery's and emergency rooms, the provincial goverenment steped in and said no you can't do that. Less essential things have been cut because there is simply no money for them. But even then. if you're under 19 you can still get your eyes checked for free. So, it's not like some of the stuff that has been cut is completely cut.

[marx marvelous]

Maybe if you guys weren't so strict about exporting moose jerky, the tax burden wouldn't be so bad on citizens.

[bishopx]

I already pay high taxes as it is....the money needs to come from someplace else such as keeping our War machine Cherry, and chasing mooninite lightbrite signs...

[Moonlight_Graham]

It could be better, we just keep cutting out the services and raising the prices. Too many doctors are in it for the money.

 

edit: there aren't that many americans on the bored lol.

One of the biggest problems with the healthcare system in Canada is the lack of doctors. Because doctors are paid by the gov't & not set up to charge whatever they want, many doctors have fled to other countries such as the U.S. where they can simply make more money because they can charge basically whatever they want.

 

The E.R. waiting room times are ridiculas in Canada. Much of the problem is that there are hardly any G.P.'s, since many have gone to the U.S. & also doctors generally specialize more these days. So these people without family doctors then head to the E.R. for treatment for a sore throat or ear-ache. And it still takes 8 hours to see a doctor because there are simply a lack of doctors.

 

There are other issues too, like funding, since MRI machines etc. are expensive & we need to build more beds in hospitals.

 

The U.S. adopting a univeral system would be great for Canada because it would lessen the amount of doctors who run to the U.S. for the bigger buck. The universal system can be done well, but there needs to be more restraints & checks. If it costs nothing for u to go to the doctor, then lots of people will go whenever they have a smallest little pain. The gov't should charge a small fee, like $2 for every visit (unless you are a child/mother, elderly, or have long-term chronic illness) to stop these people from abusing the system.

[ecnarf]

You have a point, Moonlight. Far too may people go to the emergency room when making a regular appointment or going to a walk-in clinic would be the wiser course of action. It wastes a shitload of money and resources.

 

I know some countries with socialized health care give people an account for health care, or something like that (possibly South Korea). I'm not sure how the system works, but I think it goes along the lines of, for standard treatment, people have a given amount of money set up that they can spend. When they realize that going to the ER for something that a walk-in clinic could take care of costs a lot more, they stop going to the ER for non-emergencies.

[Matt]

Part of the problem at least for BC has not been that doctors have been leaving, but in BC under the NDP not one seat was added to health sciences during the Nineties, so of course while the population has been growing, the amount of people educated has not kept pace, so under the Liberals we've been playing catch up. I think that Universal Health Care would be better for the States, the idea that people pay high taxes to pay for it is ridiculous, how much do people pay for health insurance over there as is? Do you get unlimited access to the best doctors with that insurance? I doubt it, here at least we have a chance. Universal Health Care does not just mean higher taxes or it's free to the poor, it also means everyone has the same chances at a basic right. I think it's a cop out to use high taxes as an excuse as well because lets say that John Doe here has insurance but he needs to see a specialist that's not covered, and this is something deemed essential, well in Canada you wouldn't have to pay more for it.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Matt

[marx marvelous]

I think that Universal Health Care would be better for the States, the idea that people pay high taxes to pay for it is ridiculous, how much do people pay for health insurance over there as is? Do you get unlimited access to the best doctors with that insurance? I doubt it, here at least we have a chance. Universal Health Care does not just mean higher taxes or it's free to the poor, it also means everyone has the same chances at a basic right. I think it's a cop out to use high taxes as an excuse as well because lets say that John Doe here has insurance but he needs to see a specialist that's not covered, and this is something deemed essential, well in Canada you wouldn't have to pay more for it.

I completely agree, I just see limiting subsidized healthcare to those most in need as a more likely situation for America, as most people here tend to place little trust in the government (between the war in Iraq and a multitude of other disasters, can you really blame them?), and the insurance company lobbyists might not go as crazy if they're left with the wealthiest and most sizeable market to prey on.

[Moonlight_Graham]

one thing is for sure, the pressure on healthcare is going to keep increasing dramatically over the next 20 years or so as the baby boomers start getting old & needing shitloads of healthcare.

 

If anyone wants to be a millionaire, go build yourself a few retirement homes & charge bigtime for monthly rent fees.

[soundless_space]

I think before America gets Universal Healthcare, it needs to clear up the Social Security issues first.

[bishopx]

You would be very right with that Sentiment.

 

I think Social Security falls into the same rabbit hole that Universal Health Care does...there is too much money to be made, for it to change.

[juanpe]

actually, none of the options were my favorite ones because universal healthcare shouldnt just be for Americans, or the children and poor... it should work as it works in Spain: our Constitution obliges all public health institutions to take care of any patient, no matter he/she is a Spaniard, a poor or a child, or someone from another country. There is an implicit "medical code" that everybody has the right to be attended in a hospital, without thinking of their origin or social status...

 

and it works fine in Spain. Maybe it is not the best medical health system in the world, but I think it is a gesture of solidarity with all human beings.

 

of course, in order to maintain such a system, we all workers in Spain must pay the social security system from our taxes, something that nobody complains about

[bishopx]

I wish the US was as together as Spain. That sounds like the way it should be, Juanpe.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Juanpe, i think one thing a gov't setup like that needs to watch out for though are people from out of your country, who don't pay into your taxes, from abusing the system. I don't know how your country works, but obviously i have no problem letting a foreigner on vacation get into surgery if he's just had a serious condition like heart attack, stroke, or even broken arm. But there's people who might abuse the system like someone coming over to Spain with a short-term work visa & oh woops my knees hurt i think i'd like a knee replacement for free!

[Matt]

I think Juanpe you have to remember how did your country get to that point in your healthcare system, I personally do not know. I know how Canada made it in our system, and originally the doctors were allowed to charge whatever they wanted to, but to the government, once medi-care was introduced in Saskatchewan. However, the doctors ended up going on strike over it. And, Saskatchewan barely managed to hold onto free medi-care. It's not like everyone in Canada just said "oh great we have free health care" over night, it's just become part of our nature now to think that. The U.S. will have to struggle for awhile too.

 

As for the U.S. having medi-care, it shouldn't really be a big deal. Here if you make more money you pay a premium based on your wage, if you don't make a lot you don't pay anything, so I can't see it really being an issue.

[Moonlight_Graham]

the thing with the U.S. is that many Americans don't like having gov't in their lives. Many do not like social systems where the gov't comes in and taxes the more wealthy to help fund the less wealthy. Much more of a "take care of yourself" country than Canada.

 

I have a friend in California who is always PO'd that the gov't takes money off his cheque for old-age pension. he'd flip-out if he came here.

[Matt]

My point was, not too long ago, we were the same, we were a "take care of yourself" country too, I know it will take awhile for people to accept change, but it can happen.

[juanpe]

the way it works in Spain (total free health insurance for everybody) is for emergency situations. I mean, if someone no matter where he/she is from needs to get operated, or medical attendance, nobody in a hospital has the right to ask for the social security number and if that person doesnt have one, deny medical attendance.

 

For regular medical care, people need to have either regularized documents to be in Spain or some sorta an agreement with other countries (that way, if you have to attend someone, the "bill" -to say somehow- will be charged to the country of origin)

 

You guys are right that there may be many foreigners who may abuse of the system. But all this works just for emergencies, not for regular care.

 

And apart from that, if money from our taxes is not enough to fund the social security system in Spain, all governments must invest money from the state budget for certain fields: health care and education (that's why public education in Spain is also free)