U.s. Presidential Race

[decomposinglight]

They supposedly stockpile oil constantly... but you're right. That is a possible solution.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Watched the returns for Indiana & NC last night. Clinton is so done. Its over. And Huckabee still got 10% of the vote in one of the states LOL.

 

What is so stupid is the 50% of Obama/Clinton voters in the exit polls who would said they'd would either for McCain or not vote at all rather than vote for the other candidate.

 

This all just sorta makes me PO'd. Where was a candidate like Clinton in the last 2 elections. Bah!! I like Obama better but i still think she'd do a good job even if she's an insincere power-hungry biznatch.

 

Oh and i love how Clinton still is saying in her "victory" speech last night that they should could the Michigan/Florida votes as they stand now. Florida ok, but Michigan??? Obama wasn't even on the ballot, so that just makes her look like a greedy undemocratic asswipe. GGRR!!

[juanpe]

And what's the difference between Obama or Clinton? The international policy will be the same: there will be another Irak somewhere in the world, that is, probably more illegal invasions like the one in Irak will take place, more destruction of the ozone layer because of the non-commitment to the Kyoto protocol of the United States...

 

At least I hope that if democrats win the following elections some of these things are not that way... Bush's republican rule has meant a total destruction of values, international agreements and things like that.

 

I am not so optimistic about a change in general with respect to international policy... and that -unfortunatly- affects the world, including me

[decomposinglight]

juanpe: There are many differences, but they are for the most part on the domestic level. I'm not too sure why you think there will be an invasion on the scale of Iraq, though (I think you might be letting the past 8 years of Bush cloud your judgment here). Additionally, while neither candidate has explicitly said that they would accept the Kyoto, I can see it happening. They probably just don't want to say it before they win the nomination or even the general election because they don't want to be seen as restricting the rights of the American people, it is somewhat unbalanced (as Bush's speech writers and economists alike have pointed out), and it could possibly hurt the already shitty U.S. economy (same goes for the ambiguity on NAFTA). Yahoo answers, whereistand.com, and Obama blogger Rodney Wollam ("I, like Senator Obama, support the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol") seem to think that both Obama and Hillary support its ratification, but those aren't really reputable sources. If you look at Obama's energy plan, though, he talks about making a new global council for climate change that would go beyond Kyoto's set goals. I'm sure Hillary proposes something comparable, but I haven't looked into it that much. Definitive answers are hard to come by.. but I did find a quote from an Obama speech that says "This is the administration that didn't try to improve the Kyoto Treaty by trying to include oil guzzlers like China and India, but walked away from the entire global effort to stem climate change." I see what you're saying about not being optimistic, but honestly, neither of them can possibly be worse than Bush. If I'm not assuming too far into your psyche, I'd wager that he's the one that began all of your hatred. Not Democrats, and not your favourite - the infamous stupidity of the American people.

 

Moonlight: Yeah, everyone says she's done, especially since she keeps lending to herself (up to $11 million earlier this week), but SHE just won't stop! She has been quoted as saying that she will not stop campaigning until a nominee is decided by the math, which I interpret to mean the convention. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out, Clinton's got some wonky math going on. She says she wants to have the people's votes in FL and Michigan counted (an interesting juxtaposition to the fact that she says superdelegates will decide the nomination). Even her website says "FACT: There is a clear path to an overall delegate majority (pledged + automatic) for Hillary Clinton after all states have voted -- with or without Florida and Michigan" and counts in Florida and Michigan whenever it can.

I don't think that the number was quite 50% for the "I'd not vote for the other candidate in November, I'd vote McCain or not at all" polling. I've read between 30 and 40 on most polls, but I am just as outraged as you. It's also interesting that Clinton supporters are more hard-lined about not voting for Obama in November. I do think that this will change, though, as the heat between Obama and Hillary cools down and one of them truly comes to the forefront against McCain. For Democrats, liberal independents, and the like, the Democratic nominee, whoever it is, will point out McCain's flaws (wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, Iraq War vote and "100 years, 1000 years" comment) and gain support for November. People now are too caught up in this bitter fight and they want "their" candidate to win; if they're smart, they'll realize they can't be so closed-minded come November. I do expect a few crazies to still be douchebags, but we'll see about this whole 30-40 or even 50% turning to McCain or not voting thing!

There wasn't a candidate like Clinton in the last two elections because Democrats thought there didn't need to be. In 2000, it was close, and we had had a Democrat in office for 8 years. I don't blame anyone for voting Bush in because they wanted to switch things up. It's also natural for there to be alternations in party power when it comes to the president. In 2004, the war had only just begun, so there wasn't as much to criticize Bush for. Kerry definitely underestimated Bush here, and he had his flaws of being "wishy washy." He didn't emphasize his war heroism (if that may be) enough, so he didn't get conservative independents. He seemed weak. So, the only reason that we have such strong candidates now is because Bush's term is coming to a close. They can all talk about how they're going to change things from what they've been in Bush's two terms and criticize the former administration with a tough tone.

In any case, I do like your assessment of Hillary as an "insincere power-hungry biznatch" and a "greedy undemocratic asswipe." While that may not be nice, PC, or entirely accurate, is definitely how she seems of late. This is evidenced by the fact that she discounts over half of the United States as insignificant (humourous take on this by Keith Olbermann: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/06/o..._n_100336.html) and changes the rules so that they favour her. As I've said before, I really think she wants this for herself, not for the American people. To be a good president, in my eyes, you need to go in wanting to help and fix, not to rule or control... I certainly don't want someone in the office of the president who thinks my state is full of latte-sippers or whatever because Obama won here.

[Moonlight_Graham]

I love Keith Olbermann. Billary are so caught up in this thing called politics that they'll say & do just about anything to win. Power-hungry, yes. But I think when it comes down to it, Hillary has a good heart (she's still an a-hole though) and would be a decent President (comparitively that is). Her & Obama are both incredibly intelligent candidates. Again, i try to separate the politics and try to imagine what she will be like in office if elected. There isn't a huge policy difference between her & Obama (though i like what he has to say on foreign policy, and most other things, a bit better).

 

Dennis Kucinich should be President because 1) he's awesome & tells it like it is and 2) anyone that unattractive who can convince a hot babe like his wife to marry him must be brilliant.

[decomposinglight]

I have tried to respond to this twice to no avail. You'd think some higher power doesn't want me to post...

 

Anyway, I must say that I don't see any of this Hillary's goodhearted-ness. Everything she says seems to have no heart at all; it's just what she thinks she has to say in order to get the votes. This is juxtaposed by Obama, who is very passionate in his speeches and you can tell when he's getting a little teary-eyed (for example, NC win speech mentioning the flag laid on his dad's coffin). Again, I fail to see how it's important that Hillary would be a comparatively better president than Bush. Almost anyone in politics could be better than Bush. Even McCain, with his liberal immigration stance and belief in global warming, has the potential to be smarter and better than Bush (even taking into consideration the 100/1000 years shit). He has a great sense of humour, at least.

 

Dennis is the man. He's got big pockets for pocket Constitutions. ;) But we both know he's too liberal to get elected for president in America. Maybe if he were Canadian or French or something, he'd have a better time?

 

Post pix of the hot wife! Enlighten me.

[Moonlight_Graham]

Well Hillary is still a power-hungry bitch, but underneath those slimy scales is a woman who has done a lot for children's rights, and famously led an effort to get a mnore effective gov't health care program in the US white Billy was prez.

 

According to Wikipedia:

- "In 1997 and 1999, Clinton played a role in advocating for the establishment of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, the Adoption and Safe Families Act, and the Foster Care Independence Act."

 

- As a law student: "...She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital,[38] and volunteered at New Haven Legal Services to provide free legal advice for the poor.

 

She began a year of post-graduate study on children and medicine at the Yale Child Study Center.[47] Her first scholarly article, "Children Under the Law", was published in the Harvard Educational Review in late 1973.[48] Discussing the new children's rights movement, it stated that "child citizens" were "powerless individuals"[49] and argued that children should not be considered equally incompetent from birth to attaining legal age, but that rather courts should presume competence except when there is evidence otherwise, on a case-by-case basis.[50] The article became frequently cited in the field."

 

- As a lawyer: "...She specialized in patent infringement and intellectual property law,[36] while also working pro bono in child advocacy. Rodham maintained her interest in children's law and family policy, publishing the scholarly articles "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect" in 1977[70] and "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective" in 1979.[71] The latter continued her argument that children's legal competence depended upon their age and other circumstances, and that serious medical rights cases, judicial intervention was sometimes warranted.[50] An American Bar Association chair later said, "Her articles were important, not because they were radically new but because they helped formulate something that had been inchoate. Also in 1977, Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund."

 

So obviously she cares about kids, which i guess proves she isn't a quite Satan (but they shop at the same Wal-Mart). As for her insincerity, ya she isn't very believe in her speeches. She's a horrible speaker& and a crappy liar. Obama is a great speaker and more sincere for sure, but he's also a better actor than Clinton. He's a great speaker, and therefore you don't really know when he's being insincere (which at times he has to be, since he is indeed a politician running for White House). If you look at Obama's famous speech 4 years ago during the 2004 democratic convention, you can see how much he's improved as a speaker. He's much more polished and believable now. Youtube it just to see.

 

As for Dennis Kucinich's wife, here she is:

 

Like seriously how did that nerdy shrimp land her??

[decomposinglight]

Although there are citations, I take anything on wikipedia with a grain of salt, as practically anyone's interpretation of data can be proven by snippets of quotations. Some of her resume is up to interpretation, as well. Maybe not any of what you said, but some of the plans and stuff she says she came up with.. it's totally like Ted Kennedy and some other dudes. I can see that she feels very strongly about the rights of children (I want that Hillary! Intelligent and with well-formulated, passionate views) too, but I've obviously got my qualms with her for other reasons. And I've seen that Obama speech. He's much more crowd-arousing now, but it was still very powerful at the time. True, both are actors, the campaign is the stage, Americans are the audience, and the Tony equivalent is the presidency.

 

She is a hottie compared to him, yes, but he doesn't look too bad, even next to her. They look very happy. aww.

[bishopx]

Does anyone else here, want to stuff Kucinich in a locker, and spend a few days locked in a hotel room with his wife? Or is it just me?

Edited May 23, 2008 by bishopx

[Moonlight_Graham]

Its just you. And my testicles.

 

decomposing, i get what you're saying. I don't like her methods either. She really has shown he doesn't have much integrity the way she has handled her campaign. I'm sure she would have went 5x as nasty as she has at Obama if her & Bill knew it wouldn't hurt her in the polls. My point was just that she isn't pure Satan. Campaigns seem to bring out the worst in people b/c of the powerlust i suppose. I still roll my eyes & vomit in my mouth a little everytime i hear Hillary say she wants the Michigan/Florida polls counted, and now she's on this trip where "the popular vote is the true democratic voice of the people" (paraphrased). wtf.

Edited May 24, 2008 by Moonlight_Graham

[bishopx]

I'm glad to be on the same page as you sack, Moonlight.

 

Hilary has just gone off the rails at this point. She's so determined to win at any cost, she's lost touch with the true reason she should be doing this. The good of the people. I don't want to get off on a rant here(Dennis Miller is still badass), but when did Hilary Clinton, decide she had a divine right to public office? Can anyone say Queen Hilary? What the fuck? Is this whole process her way of validating her self worth, after being publicly humiliated by Bill's many publicly aired sexual escapades. The worst of which being the obvious rabbit boiler in Arkansas, while Governor and the Krispie Kremes Calendar Girl in the Oval Office. Let's face it, if I were Hilary, I'd be thinking, what the fuck, am I that fucking horrible? Now I know all of this sounds sexist, but it's only meant to make the point...that Hilary's campaign has become a bit of a farce, and then some. She's become the kid, who didn't get the Cabbage Patch doll for Christmas, and wants everyone to be miserable for it. If she really cared about the party, and really cared about the people, she'd put an end to this nonsense now. Let's be honest here. If she'd conceded sooner, and not resorted to such dirty pool, she'd be a prime candidate for VP. Sadly for her, but probably best for all concerned, the job is John Edwards to take if he pleases. My message to Hilary is this: At some point, you were an idealist, and a dreamer, with best of intentions. You need to go back and meet that person, have a Vanilla Soy Mocha Latte with her, and discuss where you went wrong. It's the only way to salvage your political career at this point. You need to care about the people, the process, and the purpose. Isn't that what the whole point of democracy is, in the first place?

 

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[decomposinglight]

You aren't wrong. ;) Love your quote about the Cabbage Patch doll.

[bishopx]

Thank you Amanda.

 

Getting off on a rant here again,

 

I'm so pissed at her, She won't be happy until she totally cockblocks the whole damned party out of the election. She should be working to build the powerbase, and warchest for the "big show". I guarantee she'll be out of politics, completely in three years. I heard someone compare her to Gore's fight in the Presidential Election. No comparison...Gore's fight was justified...I still think that election was rigged. Darling Hilly is fighting out of spite and vanity...it makes you wonder when the last time, she had the best interests of her constituents, her country, and her party anywhere near her frigid heart.

 

She's missus cold miser, she's missus cold...

 

That's my opinion, I could be wrong...

[Moonlight_Graham]

Ya fuck her! And Obama recently announced he formally has left his church, this about a month after he denounced his pastor. The church and pastor who married him and baptized his 2 daughters and he's attended the last 20 years or whatever. Mmm ya ok not for political reason Obama?

 

I hate politicians.

[bishopx]

I'm deeply disappointed in Obama for that. And not because I'm a member of the same denomination. This was his moment to back his beliefs. I understand backing away from the pastor, the guy was spouting verbal feces. But leaving the church, was a bad move.

[supercanuk]

Obama wins nom

 

 

 

I'm happy it happened.... are you?

[sodamntired]

I'm very happy.

[bishopx]

This is true awesomeness...and can you say someone needs a reality check...Hilly is playing the sore loser to the hilt...She has just tanked what's left of her career, by not conceding last night.

[Jarrod]

This election is going to be amazing to watch! I can't wait!

 

Damn, I hope that Obama becomes President. McCain creeps me out.

[bishopx]

Yeah McCain is starting to look like Reagan, in his second term...lights are on, nobody is home...little crazy.

[sodamntired]

yesterday, i walked into the Obama 08 office in Fargo to get a button or a t-shirt, and they told me that a politician was going to be giving a speech there, so I hung around.

 

long story short, I volunteered the go out and campaign for Obama in Fargo. Knocking on doors. AND they caught me on the news. yes, I am the tall black man at the back. nope, i kid, i kid,

[bishopx]

Damn Christoffer, it's too early to laugh this freakin hard. Thank you.

[Guest apsham]

I'm lost. >_<

[bishopx]

So is the US electoral process. Welcome to the club.

[Shiri]

Seriously, if McCain wins, I'll lose all the litte faith I have that Americans have a brain.