U.s. Presidential Race

[bishopx]

You and me both. Shit I'm moving to Canada.

[ToadMan]

I'll stay here as long as they pay me well... but once the boarder starts to close and the dictatorship becomes more concrete, I'm using that Canadian passport of mine to get out.

[bishopx]

Good to see you again Toadman.

 

You'll find me either in Lethbridge or Somewhere in Saskatchewan.

[HoboFactory]

I'd consider Canada but it's just not far enough.

[bishopx]

Canada is perfect, great country, hot chicks, great music, civilized political system, hot chicks, canibals, moose, back bacon, Hot Chicks, Kids In The Hall, The Trailer Park Boys, True Freedom Of Speech, The McKenzie Brothers, Count Floyd, Rush, MG, Nuff Said.

[Computer]

You forgot HOCKEY

[bishopx]

Fuck, how could I forget that. I mean shit, Hockey rules!!!

 

Also, let's not forget the Royal Canadian Kilted Yakksmen.

[sodamntired]

 

I officially voted...so don't blame me. it sucks that it had to be in North Dakota, but i DID vote against the creation of a committee to further ban smoking throughout Fargo.

[bishopx]

Every vote counts. Unless you're in Florida, then there's some weird wormhole there where only certain votes, for certain people count.

[ToadMan]

B.S. The electoral collage makes it so that only some votes count.

[bishopx]

Ultimately, yes you are correct...but the electoral college is determined by the popular vote.

[ToadMan]

On a per state basis. My comment was more aimed at the prevalent trend of red states and blue states. If you are a voting american in California or Texas and you want to vote republican or democrat, respectively, then by the virtue of the fact that your state on a whole will vote the other way, then all of the electoral votes will go against you.

 

It is a broken system. Just as Canada's first past the post (Single Member Plurality) system is broken. If I vote for a candidate other than one of the leading candidates, then my vote is wasted... especially if I want to prevent the conservatives from getting power, but choose the nearest second wrong.

 

We can hardly argue that the popular vote ultimately decides an election, since there have been four presidents that have won the electoral collage, but lost the electoral vote. I realize that in the grand running of things that's only 1/10 of the time, but still reflects a discrepancy.

 

Though I have no official credentials, my opinion is that the Electoral Collage exists from a time when it was believed that the population at large lacked the intelligence to vote responsibly. Therefor the electoral collage protects the system from the pollution of the people, by appointing the rich and well educated... because they have never had an agenda of there own. Although rare, it is possible for the electors to cast their vote differently that how they said they would. Though I believe this might be illegal in some places (?).

[bishopx]

Thank you for the clarification...in that regard, yes the prevailing popular opinions, political leanings of the states, red vs. blue...generally carry the electorate vote.

 

You are also pretty dead on about the general purpose of the electoral college's initial inception.

 

I personally feel that the popular vote should carry more weight. The Electoral College, confirms a lot of power on a very small minority of people...who are more likely to have their own agendas in play. While that's true in any delegation of a greater masses power, to it's elected officials...it seems more dangerous in a time when a major corporation, can buy and sell an elected official with relative ease...see Dick Cheney...

 

 

I believe Sarah Palin will be the same when it comes to Big Oil...She has close ties to them.

Edited October 1, 2008 by bishopx

[Moonlight_Graham]

Toadman said:

 

On a per state basis. My comment was more aimed at the prevalent trend of red states and blue states. If you are a voting american in California or Texas and you want to vote republican or democrat, respectively, then by the virtue of the fact that your state on a whole will vote the other way, then all of the electoral votes will go against you.

 

It is a broken system.

 

I agree the Electoral College system is a piece of garbage. I couldn't even imagine how frustrating it would be to be a liberal living in a red-state or a conservative living in a blue state. So many votes seemed almost worthless in a sense. Hell, i even get pissed with the Canadian system of voting in small districts because i happen to live in a very strong Conservative district.

 

The U.S., IMO, should simply vote by popular vote. Its easy, its fair, everyone gets equal say.

 

Though I have no official credentials, my opinion is that the Electoral Collage exists from a time when it was believed that the population at large lacked the intelligence to vote responsibly. Therefor the electoral collage protects the system from the pollution of the people, by appointing the rich and well educated... because they have never had an agenda of there own. Although rare, it is possible for the electors to cast their vote differently that how they said they would.

 

I remember that the Electoral College was also created in part because of the strong federalism beliefs when the U.S. Constitution was written. Not many years before the constitution was written, American was a group of 13 seperate colonies that had significant indepedence from each other, with each colony having many squabbles with each other etc. When writing the Constitution they wanted a balance of power of the state (federalism) & power of the population.

 

There is still a strong sense of federalism in the U.S., but nothing like it was. I don't see much of a need anymore for the Electoral College since different states don't distrust each other like they used to. What could be the cons of popular vote system?

[HoboFactory]

So the investigating panel has concluded that Palin did abuse her power in the firing of an Alaskan state official. Obama/Biden are ahead in national polls by something like 8-11% so it's starting to look like McCain/Palin would need something like a miracle to win.

[ToadMan]

That's interesting... I figured they where running on the "God loves you plus barefoot and pregnant" platform anyway... maybe they can get some miracles...

[bishopx]

Damn Toadman, that was fucking awesome.

 

The kid that that knocked up her daughter, gave an interview from his driveway the other day, and he comes across sounding more intelligent than Palin does.

 

What I want to know is, how long it takes her to read all of the newspapers in the country, each day?

 

Troopergate just makes her look stupid. If Stevens gets out of hotwater, which is looking very likely, she's going to look even more stupid, for turning her back on him.

 

McCain's only chance now is to dump her for someone else and fast.

[HoboFactory]

Well, he'd have to dump her for someone good, because there've been very few cases of candidates dumping running mates after announcing them, especially this late in the game. In such cases, the candidates that dumped their running mates have apparently lost by landslide, so I guess McCain probably has to make do with what he's got.

[uglyredhonda]

I think McCain's stuck with Palin. The only save for him would be her voluntarily dropping off the ticket (which, given her personality, I doubt she could be convinced to do). It would have to be portrayed as her decision.

 

Otherwise, it's an admission that he made a mistake. The Democrats would rip him apart because it would call his judgement into question.

 

And, honestly, I can't imagine anyone but Guiliani accepting it in such a scenario (only because I can't imagine him running again after his disaster of a campaign). Every other notable Republican wouldn't want to tarnish their reputation (ie, future running) by associating themselves with a campaign in this much turmoil.

 

The other problem is that McCain would lose the super-conservative / wingnut part of the base, which he has to have to win. They've never liked McCain; Palin is motivating that group.

 

Even if Palin dropped voluntarily, he'd have to find someone that appeals to the wingnuts and to the moderates. And, at this point, I really don't think that person exists.

 

But, at the moment, Palin is "helping" to some degree. She's the one levelling the charges that the campaign wants to level but that McCain doesn't want to level himself. It's two-faced, and, fortunately, he's starting to get called on it.

[bishopx]

Pavel and Chris, both very lucid statements, and pretty much dead on. I was hoping for more of a contest between McCain and Obama...but with every step Palin takes, the odds of that shrink tremendously.

 

She's a dumbass, and McCain will go down in history as a big dumbass for choosing her.

[sodamntired]

this scares me...it really scares me.

 

 

[Computer]

you're actually surprised by that?

[sodamntired]

I'm just keep telling myself, "people are smart, they make decisions for themselves, they will vote for the person that speaks for them and to them, and is most qualified, and can provide security and safety for them and their own." but when I see this, I just want to bury myself in 3 pillows, unfortunately, i need to get up for air and food, but my television turns to cnn, and they greet me with reports that say the economy is shit, out children's children's children will be paying off the current president's war, and we will all die." then I can't sleep.

[bishopx]

Okay...it's been a few days, and I've had a chance to collect my thoughts about the last debate.

 

Obama is definitely not politics as usual...McCain spent the entire debate attacking, and sucking his teeth and sighing, like a sista with an attitude...a large part of his attacks were based on things that were proven to be untrue. I commend Obama for not getting mired in the muck here, and AM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED in McCain, someone that I had a tremendous amount of respect for, for behaving like a four year old. Scratch that, the girl's 4 year old, behaves better than he did.

 

As for those videos, this is what happens when you cater to the lowest common denominator. Not all republicans and conservatives, are ignorant racsists. I've had a lot of healthy debate and conversation with people from across the party lines. Some of my closest friends are dyed in the wool, Republicans, and I have usually been a moderately conservative democrat.

 

All kidding aside, the kind of language Palin has used at rallies and appearances, borders on being Hate-speak. It is dangerous, and inflammatory. I'm not singling her out, I personally think it's some of the worst instances of it, since Louis Farrakhan...someone that I have felt has done more damage opening his mouth, than anyone could ever do to their own race, and that race's relations with others.

[juanpe]

Just hope Obama wins... can't imagine 4 more years with the conservative politics ruling the US and the world...

 

At least in Europe, we've got it very clear... hope the Americans also have it very clear and vote for the US's interests and the whole world's interest as well