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Moonlight_Graham

Abortion Question

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Besides danger to the mother and maybe rape, what possible reasons could a woman (or couple) have to get an abortion that would be morally ethical?

 

I get the argument that women should have the right to decide over their bodies, but i mean shit...why don't they just take some responsibility, endure 9 months of uncomfortableness, and have the baby and give it up for adoption?

 

What pisses me off is the idea of killing an unborn baby because some young woman is too embarrased or scared to tell her parents. Someone would kill a baby & deny someone their life over shit like this?

 

And i'm not talking about laws here, like pro-choice or anti-abortion, i'm just talking ethics/morality. Lets say abortion was be 100% legal, but can any arguments be made for it to be moral?

 

p.s. I know this going to open a can of worms, sorry.

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As I see it, there are two logical positions you can have on this. Either a fetus has rights, and therefore killing it is wrong in any circumstance, including rape, or else a fetus does not have rights, and killing it is not wrong. I don't consider fetuses to have rights, because they aren't sentient beings, so abortions are never ethically questionable, and I don't see what responsibility has to do with it.

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Besides danger to the mother and maybe rape, what possible reasons could a woman (or couple) have to get an abortion that would be morally ethical?

Everyone has a different view on morality, but I think that an abortion is always immoral unless keeping the child would(/probably could) kill the mother. I this case, the child would die either way, so saving the mother's life is definately not immoral.

 

What pisses me off is the idea of killing an unborn baby because some young woman is too embarrased or scared to tell her parents. Someone would kill a baby & deny someone their life over shit like this?

This disappoints me as well, but I think the 'close your legs' idea many people follow would really help out in cases like that (preventative).

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What pisses me off is the idea of killing an unborn baby because some young woman is too embarrased or scared to tell her parents.

 

Agreed. Girls should be mature enough to realize the consequences.

 

A lot of people argue that during the period that women can have the abortion, the embryo isn't capable of feeling pain, so they could feel like it's not hurting anyone.

Many scientists say that it is not a real "person" yet, no matter how ridiculous that is. That's how they justify work on human cloning.

 

The pregnant woman could believe that she couldn't take proper care of a child, and they don't want to put it through the adoption system.

If a woman is older, the risk of complications such as birth defects, a miscarriage, and risks for the woman herself, increase dramatically.

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If you ask me, the decision to have an abortion needs to be avoided in the first place, for several reasons:

 

-the mental trauma suffered by the woman after having an abortion (it's been long documented that women can suffer from depression even 10 years after an abortion)

-the probability of the child not living up to their full potential in foster care

-the medical procedure of having an abortion is dangerous and can cause permanent damage

-reducing health care costs by having less abortions

 

the list goes on. Proper birth control (the pill, condoms, "morning-after" pills, etc) can severely reduce the chances of a crisis pregnancy

 

Ultimately, it's a woman's right to choose. Ethically speaking, I disagree with abortions, but I disagree moreso with telling people what they should do.

Edited by ecnarf
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How is a fetus any more a person than a dog?

a fetus is a developing person. Shortly after conception a baby is just a clump of cells, but that clump of cells has the overwhelming potential to become a human being.

 

I was once a fetus and a clump of cells, i was never a dog.

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A developing person is no more a person than a seed is a tree. Potential is meaningless; if I destroy a pile of bricks, am I blowing up a building?

First thing: You completely contridict yourself. "A developing PERSON is no more a person....". If a developing PERSON is not a person, than you cannot call it a person. Call it a developing fetus or eymbro, but not a person.

 

Second, I don't think potential is meaningless. Let us count the ways. Say Albert Einstien was aborted. There goes that potential. Say you were aborted. Every 'potential' human being should have the opportunity to live.

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First thing: You completely contridict yourself. "A developing PERSON is no more a person....". If a developing PERSON is not a person, than you cannot call it a person. Call it a developing fetus or eymbro, but not a person.

 

Oh, wow, got me there, captain semantics.

 

Second, I don't think potential is meaningless. Let us count the ways. Say Albert Einstien was aborted. There goes that potential. Say you were aborted. Every 'potential' human being should have the opportunity to live.

 

...oh no? If Albert Einstein was aborted, we'd never have known what we were missing. That argument just makes no sense. I mean, wow, my girlfriend and I aren't having any kids; think of all the possible potential we're wasting! Everyone should have lots of kids so we have lots of "great people" like Einstein!

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A developing person is no more a person than a seed is a tree. Potential is meaningless; if I destroy a pile of bricks, am I blowing up a building?

A seed is just a seed (like a sperm or a woman's egg), but if you plant that seed in the ground and it shows the first signs of sprouting into a tree, and then you dig it up and destroy it, then i think an argument could be made that you detroyed a tree....or something much more likely than not to turn into a tree.

 

Also, if you destroy a pile of bricks you are not destroying a building. Bricks can be made into many things. A developing embryo can only turn into a human being. A better argument would be to say if you destroyed the frame of a developing house, did you destroy a building?

 

Also, a question: when does a developing baby inside a mother become a human being? Up to what point in development is it ok to abort and then not ok? Where is the line?

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Not in Canadian law. A fetus is not legally a person, and is considered part of the mother, until it is born alive. Abortions at any point are legal in Canada. Sheesh, even in the US the partial-birth abortion ban was struck down.

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It's illegal for abortions to be done in any case except by a qualified medical practioner - that includes, oddly enough, a woman inducing her own miscarriage. Other than that I don't believe it's regulated at all, which is fairly rare in the world and something I'm quite happy for.

 

Also, if you destroy a pile of bricks you are not destroying a building. Bricks can be made into many things. A developing embryo can only turn into a human being. A better argument would be to say if you destroyed the frame of a developing house, did you destroy a building?

 

First of all, I don't believe that what the fetus will be is fixed at conception at all. It will be a human being, true, but that has no bearing on what kind of person it will be. I italicize "will" to emphasize that I don't believe a person has yet developed in the fetus.

 

Second, a frame doesn't turn into a house on its own; builders turn it into a house. A fetus does not turn into a person on its own; the mother turns it into a person by allowing it to grow inside her body. She does this with consent, since it is immoral to remove from someone control over their own body.

Edited by Bizud
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Second, a frame doesn't turn into a house on its own; builders turn it into a house.  A fetus does not turn into a person on its own; the mother turns it into a person by allowing it to grow inside her body.  She does this with consent, since it is immoral to remove from someone control over their own body.

So, it's immoral to remove control over someone's own body, but not immoral for abortion? Generally, in about two weeks after conception, an eymbro will show the first signs of live, turning into a fetus. There's my point, the first signs of live. Therefore, by killing something that is alive, you are commiting murder. And could you please explain your defination of a person? Because you keep refering to a fetus and a person as two seperate things, when in fact they aren't. A fetus is a living, breating person. It eats, sleeps, grows. So, I don't see the differance. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

Edited by matrix
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Many people believe that the soul is a defining characteristic of humanity, and that the soul is placed in the human at conception.

that's all well and good if that is what you believe. but who gets to enforce that view on others? if i don't believe a fetus has a soul, then it wouldn't be wrong to me. then you get other peoples' opinions thrown in and that's when it becomes a giant mess - pardon the pun.

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