Is The Arctic Canadian Territory?

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

Thoughts on this?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...rper060126.html

 

The United States opposes a plan by prime minister-designate Stephen Harper to deploy military icebreakers in the Arctic in order to assert Canadian sovereignty, says the U.S. ambassador to Canada.

 

"There's no reason to create a problem that doesn't exist," David Wilkins said Wednesday as he took part in a forum at the University of Western Ontario in London.

U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins. (CP file photo)

 

"We don't recognize Canada's claims to those waters... Most other countries do not recognize their claim."

 

During the election campaign, which culminated with Harper's win this week, the Conservatives promised to spend $5.3 billion over five years to defend northern waters against the Americans, Russians and Danes.

 

"Sovereignty is something, you use it or you lose it," Harper said at the pre-Christmas announcement in Winnipeg.

 

His plan included the construction and deployment of three new armed heavy icebreaking ships, as well as the eventual construction of a $2-billion deepwater port in Iqaluit and an underwater network of "listening posts."

 

Harper wouldn't say whether he would order military action if the ships or port detected an unauthorized submarine in Arctic waters.

 

In an interview, Wilkins said he doesn't think that kind of military buildup is necessary in the Far North.

 

"We are simply having a disagreement on this," he said. "We have agreed to disagree, and there's no reason ... to say, 'There's a problem that's occurring and we gotta do something about it.'"

 

Wilkins also said he expects less anti-American sentiment from Harper's new minority government, and added that he called Harper to offer congratulations on his election victory.

[supercanuk]

If Bush disagrees with Harpers claim to the artic lands, Harper will probably back off. I cant see him rocking the boat with the Americans. I could be totally wrong but hell, only time will tell.

[rebellious_L]

First of all, fuck the american gov't for pissing in our waters and claiming they are not ours. As for this plan, I think it is a waste of money, as there is nothing up there worth defending.

 

Or so we are lead to believe...

 

I think Harper will go through with the plan to try to show us that he is not "George Bush's new best friend."

[Ravenous itchy]

The "thing worth defending" is our claim on the land. If we say land is ours but can't defend it if someone else decides to use it, then we are only setting ourselves up to be taken advantage of.

[Matt]

Harper's going to defend the artic, as he said in his speech today.

[Ravenous Yam]

The "thing worth defending" is our claim on the land. If we say land is ours but can't defend it if someone else decides to use it, then we are only setting ourselves up to be taken advantage of.

Exactly!

 

And as for Harper not rocking the boat with the Americans (or whatever), he has also said he will take a hard line on the NAFTA softwood lumber ruling.

[ecnarf]

Does anyone know more about this arctic territory claim that they can fill us in on? I've heard various references to it, but I've never understood what exactly is going on.

[Moonlight_Graham]

haha Cherry Poppin' you musta read my post on mblog.

[Ravenous Yam]

Does anyone know more about this arctic territory claim that they can fill us in on? I've heard various references to it, but I've never understood what exactly is going on.

Basically what it is, is that Canada's sovereignty of the Arctic region (the waters and most of the islands to the North of Canada) is being challenged by the US.

 

As I understand it, the Americans frequently patrol submarines in and around our islands all the time. I'm not sure when our government found out, but it only became a big issue recently. What appears to have happened is that when Canada told the US to stop patrolling our territory with their military, the US basically told us to fuck ourselves; that the islands and those waters are not ours and we have no claim to them.

Essentially, the all-too-prevalent 'do whatever we want, fuck the rest' attitude that seems to be coming from South of the border too much the last few years.

 

As the US ambassador to Canada said in the article at the beginning of the thread, "We don't recognize Canada's claims to those waters... Most other countries do not recognize their claim."

 

That's about the extent of what I know.

[Matt]

Isn't there supposed to be oil up in the Artic too now?

[garsk]

there is oil near the yukon and alaskan border and in the arctic ocean, depeanding on how you draw the maps the oil can be on either side. Also their is an island in between Canada and Greenland and both the Dutch and the Canadian claim as their own. both countries have sent troops to it to make their claim.

[saturnine]

does this include baffin island?

[ecnarf]

there is oil near the yukon and alaskan border and in the arctic ocean, depeanding on how you draw the maps the oil can be on either side. Also their is an island in between Canada and Greenland and both the Dutch and the Canadian claim as their own. both countries have sent troops to it to make their claim.

Don't they still owe us from WWII?

 

Matt, there isn't much oil way up in the high arctic, but there are potential supply routes up there. Once the ice melts away, of course.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

haha Cherry Poppin' you musta read my post on mblog.

No, I didn't. Who do you comment as?

[Matt]

Anyways though, I think that the Artic is ares, yes it has been in dispute forever, but quite a bit of the land up north we bought as "Rupert's Land" from the Hudson's Bay Co. way back when even. We settled the West to stop things just like this. And we've been pushed around on this too many times.

[josiegross]

most other countries don't recognise it as ours?

wouldn't all of the light green be canadian?

 

 

any idea whereabouts they're poking around?

[Ravenous Yam]

I just looked into it; all countries fully recognize the sovereignty of Canada over those islands except:

-US

-Denmark (nautical border conflicts between Canada and Greenland)

-Russia (claims some of the Arctic as Russian territory, but only the Arctic on the other side near Russia)

-Norway (some Norwegian islands that aren't even close to ours)

 

So that guy is just talking out of his ass. The only relevant challenge over the islands besides themselves comes from Denmark, and that is only over a nautical border.

 

I know that the US claims the oil reserves in the Beaufort Sea as entirely theirs (observe josiegross' map). There aren't specific details as to whcih particular waterways they are trespassing in, but it seems to be a case of any and all.

 

What they appear to be doing now (as far as I can determine) is that they are literally challenging Canada's sovereignty over the entire region, including all the islands and all the waters. (I am assuming this does not count Baffin Island, as people live there).

 

 

This is shenanigans!!

[Moonlight_Graham]

Josiegross, nice job. Yeah any map i remember has all those little arctic islands above the Northwest Territories etc. as our. Of course, many of those maps were probably made in Canada.

 

But if we don't own it, who does? Certainly not the Americans. They just want to poke around up there for security reasons, which i don't blame them. If i were Canada i'd claim it still as ours, and tell the U.S. they could keep patrolling if they sent half their ships home, and then place some Canadian subs/boats up there for our own safety/sovereignty & keep an eye on those sneaky Canadians.

 

different question: who owns Antarctica? always wondered that. Is that just an a big international iceberg?

[Spritzup]

Nobody owns Antarctica. I believe there was something passed at the UN that said it was for all countries to use for scientific research only.

[Cherry Poppin' Daddy]

I claim the moon.

[ecnarf]

I claim the moon.

Funny enough, there was a UN resolution passed against people doing such a thing.

 

It seems the only countries that don't recognize Canada's arctic territory claims are the ones that have an interest in taking it for themselves.

 

EDIT: Josie, could you elaborate on where I can win $100.00?

Edited January 27, 2006 by ecnarf

[josiegross]

shotgun hawaii!

or, wait, is that taken? if it's not taken it's mine. i called it. is it taken? anybody know?

[ecnarf]

I claim the place where you can win $100.00.

[Spritzup]

I claim Cuba. Going to get me some cigars and some missles...

[josiegross]

ecnarf: i think it's just a big white box in the ocean.