Anyone know why the Matt Good subreddit went private?

[gweeps]

1 minute ago, uglyredhonda said:

 

I used to know a guy who was all around great dude. Funny, charismatic. Helped you when you needed something. Openly promoted women's rights; he frequently wore a hoodie with a popular feminist slogan on it.

 

I once saw him pin his wife to the ground and remind her who was in charge of their relationship.

 

We aren't friends anymore.

Right. But it doesn't take away from the good he did, regardless of his possible ulterior motives. Ted Bundy once saved a child from drowning and then years later murdered one for fun. The truth is often uncomfortable in its multiple layers.

[jennzebel]

Just now, gweeps said:

Right. But it doesn't take away from the good he did, regardless of his possible ulterior motives. Ted Bundy once saved a child from drowning and then years later murdered one for fun. The truth is often uncomfortable in its multiple layers.

LOL ARE YOU FOR REAL RIGHT NOW? HAHAHAHHAA

[uglyredhonda]

4 minutes ago, gweeps said:

Right. But it doesn't take away from the good he did, regardless of his possible ulterior motives. Ted Bundy once saved a child from drowning and then years later murdered one for fun. The truth is often uncomfortable in its multiple layers.

 

3 minutes ago, jennzebel said:

LOL ARE YOU FOR REAL RIGHT NOW? HAHAHAHHAA

 

Swear to God, I almost wrote "It's like saying 'Ted Bundy did good stuff, too'," but I figured comparing MG to a serial killer was out of line.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by uglyredhonda

[gweeps]

2 minutes ago, jennzebel said:

This whole site is about his accomplishments - its not really the time or conversation to be bringing up how awesome you think he is - we obviously all love his music or we wouldn't be here...& there could very well be some of his accusers here and it is really shitty to read people downplaying this. 

Having talked to a couple of the women involved and hearing their stories this is not just a disgruntled ex situation - Hayley's experience just brought out a few dozen women who feel like they were preyed upon by a much older man....there appears to be a pattern of behaviour that is gross...one of these women is just a year older than my daughter. You really think these women, his ex included have anything to gain by doing this, especially when so many people are shitting on them for it already and it hasn't even hit the media news outlets yet? I am extremely disappointed and let down but this is not about us fans. There are plenty of men who got #metoo'd who moved on without much consequence so this is not as unfair as you think it is.

Like I said, I don't know the whole story. But I always get nervous when I see what appears to be a pile on, regardless of who's in the wrong. It will be interesting to see how all of this rolls out.

1 minute ago, uglyredhonda said:

 

Swear to God, I almost wrote "It's like saying 'Ted Bundy did good stuff, too'," but I figured comparing MG to a serial killer was out of line.

My point obviously is terrible people of all echelons also can do helpful things. Doesn't take away from the need for consequences though.

 

I guess I'm just a guy who likes to think about all sides of an issue, regardless of how distasteful it may seem to others who are presently solely focused on a single framework.

[uglyredhonda]

19 minutes ago, gweeps said:

I guess I'm just a guy who likes to think about all sides of an issue, regardless of how distasteful it may seem to others who are presently solely focused on a single framework.

 

But saying "he's done good stuff, too" isn't "all sides of an issue".

 

If you're going to use Bundy, I'll use this example:

 

Organized cartels often do a lot of humanitarian work in their communities. Hamas and Hezbollah often clothe and feed their populations - build schools, etc. They'll put that goodwill to tactical use - such as basing their military operations / weapons caches in the basement of apartment buildings where innocent civilians live. When the Israelis attack those locations, innocent civilians die. The good acts don't absolve the fact that they're intentionally getting civilians killed. Even in other cases where it doesn't end in death, criminal organizations often hide their activities under the guise of their good deeds. It's not a "both sides" thing.

 

In this case, a lot of MG's "goodwill" is his outreach about mental illness, and several of the accusations have claimed that he's using his mental illness as a defense for his behavior. That tarnishes / cheapens the goodwill of his mental illness outreach.

 

At best, "all sides" here means waiting for MG to respond, and giving him the benefit of the doubt until he does. It's not: "You know, Hitler also helped a old woman cross the street once."

[gweeps]

19 minutes ago, uglyredhonda said:

In this case, a lot of MG's "goodwill" is his outreach about mental illness, and several of the accusations have claimed that he's using his mental illness as a defense for his behavior. That tarnishes / cheapens the goodwill of his mental illness outreach.

 

At best, "all sides" here means waiting for MG to respond, and giving him the benefit of the doubt until he does. It's not: "You know, Hitler also helped a old woman cross the street once."

I've occasionally thought that he has used his illness as an excuse. But not specifically having bipolar disorder doesn't allow me to not consider that it's part of his disease, the disconnect between his emotions and his actions.

 

I use hyperbole to make a clear point that, yes, we should wait for his response to further understand his part in these issues. A rush to judgement, however tantalizing, isn't useful.

[Williammunny11]

All of this talk about serial killers and terroists aside, this whole thing really boils down to 'are you comfortable listening to the music of someone who has done dispicable things?"

 

Obviously, as with most things in life, all of this is subjective—we don't have all the 'facts,' and everyone has a different definition of 'dispicable,' so this is a tough, especially considering that we are all here becase we are obviously fans.

 

As for me, I'm still not sure how I feel. I do know this—preying on underage (or borderline) underage girls crosses a line for me. I have three sisters, and the older brother in me gets pretty miffed when I read some of what these woman have to say.

 

Learning about similar behavior from other artists and actors (Kevin Spacey anyone?) has really made it hard for me to enjoy their art, and I suspect that this will be the same.

 

It's a shame, but this all boils down to business—whether or not a crime was committed, Matt is in the business of 'selling' his art, and his image has a whole lot to do with that. RIght now, that image has taken a huge hit, and regardless of what he does or does not say, regardless of how cool or uncool it was for his private business to be aired in public, I'm probably never gonna think of him the same way.

 

 

 

 

[gweeps]

What does "borderline underage" mean anyway? An 18-year old is an 18-year old.

 

But yes, it is a shame what some people get up to in their private lives. I'm still shocked by Bill Cosby. His jokes are still funny though. But yes, like any crooked lawyer or politician, you cannot completely separate the personal from the professional.

[Williammunny11]

8 minutes ago, gweeps said:

What does "borderline underage" mean anyway? An 18-year old is an 18-year old.

 

But yes, it is a shame what some people get up to in their private lives. I'm still shocked by Bill Cosby. His jokes are still funny though. But yes, like any crooked lawyer or politician, you cannot completely separate the personal from the professional.

 

Yeah man, I'm not gonna argue semantics with you, but if you think that a 40 yo dude getting with an 18/19/20 year old girl is 'fine,' (my definition of 'borderline underage' btw), then we just don't see the world the same way and should just agree to disagree.

[gweeps]

1 minute ago, Williammunny11 said:

 

Yeah man, I'm not gonna argue semantics with you, but if you think that a 40 yo dude getting with an 18/19/20 year old girl is 'fine,' (my definition of 'borderline underage' btw), then we just don't see the world the same way and should just agree to disagree.

Let me be clear that such a relationship isn't anything I'd be up for. I'm just saying as long as it's consensual.

 

I'm almost 41 and have two sisters still in their 20s. It wouldn't seem right for me to date anyone younger than they are. But then again, who knows what the future holds, and as long as the person isn't underage.

 

Semantics do matter though. Context, nuance, etc.

[crthiel]

2 hours ago, Williammunny11 said:

this whole thing really boils down to 'are you comfortable listening to the music of someone who has done dispicable things?"

 

 

Nailed it.  All this talk of cancel culture and whatnot or trying to parse out what EXACTLY Matt did that was illegal is just noise.  Some people are quick to make excuses, some are quick to write him off forever and then there are people ready to attack someone who doesn't feel the same way.  I imagine most of us are probably just sitting here saying, "well, this sucks." 

 

A few things from my point of view:

 

1) I feel terrible for any woman (or person) that has suffered at the hands of predatory behavior such as what has been alleged.  I support them and will ALWAYS listen to what they have to say. They should be welcome to this forum (or any forum) without being attacked or harassed to tell their story.

2) Everyone makes mistakes but if this becomes a pattern of behavior or there appears to be a culture of it then that wades into unacceptable territory for me.  It looks like we're there with all of the allegations but I think I'd like to at least hear from Matt.  But the more time that goes by with absolute crickets, the more damning it looks.  Is this typical "rock star" behavior?  I think it goes beyond that.  It's not the 70/80/90's anymore and reaching out via social media to groom and manipulate and send inappropriate material is quite a bit different than just banging a groupie on the bus and moving on to the next city. The infidelity seemingly throughout Matt's personal life also increases the magnitude of this.  Although, I've generally NEVER cared about the personal lives of musicians in the past.  

3) I'm done financially supporting MG in any future endeavors.  Will I listen to any music he puts out, if he even continues selling music?  I honestly don't know.  I'm not gonna run off and burn all his albums and for now, any listening pleasure I received has been significantly dampened. I didn't even buy Moving Walls because I didn't think it was any good but that's beside the point.

4) I have a rec room in my house dedicated to rock n roll memorabilia. I have a whole section of wall dedicated to MG.  Pictures, framed signed posters and CD's, a drumstick I caught from an MGB show, etc.  It seems a little extreme to take it down because by all accounts, the other members of MGB aren't total dirtbags.  But I'm really torn with having what basically amounts to an altar to a man who treats women in such a way I consider unconscionable. Undecided as of right now.

[Chris85]

It appears the actual page on press.warnermusic.ca has been removed altogether. Not just removing the link.

[Chris85]

Statement from Warner Music Canada on Twitter.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Chris85

[uglyredhonda]

I give them full credit for going on record like this - I half-expected them to drop him quietly to avoid potential blowback.

 

Btw - this also gives the media some cover to report the story.

[Millstone]

So is he still on the streaming services or what? I don't really do those.

[uglyredhonda]

4 minutes ago, Millstone said:

So is he still on the streaming services or what? I don't really do those.

 

Still everywhere on digital.

 

It's really going to come down to the nature of the drop and the structure of the contract.

 

Typically, a drop is just a drop - no further releases, but the existing ones remain. They might stop pressing physical versions - but, honestly, I think it would have been unlikely for them to press any more copies of the Warner albums, even if this hadn't happened.

 

It's unclear to me who actually controls the music. His digital releases for those albums usually credit "M. Good Productions", and only occasionally mention "Warner Music Canada". M. Good Productions might be a Warner imprint, or he might control the music. Warners at least controls the videos and the physical releases - and the videos are gone, so that might be the only obvious change.

[Millstone]

4 minutes ago, uglyredhonda said:

 

Still everywhere on digital.

 

It's really going to come down to the nature of the drop and the structure of the contract.

 

Typically, a drop is just a drop - no further releases, but the existing ones remain. They might stop pressing physical versions - but, honestly, I think it would have been unlikely for them to press any more copies of the Warner albums, even if this hadn't happened.

 

It's unclear to me who actually controls the music. His digital releases for those albums usually credit "M. Good Productions", and only occasionally mention "Warner Music Canada". M. Good Productions might be a Warner imprint, or he might control the music. Warners at least controls the videos and the physical releases - and the videos are gone, so that might be the only obvious change.

Appears that only the last 3 were released under WMC. Not sure what this means for the future.

 

I'm sure the last 3 albums were not living up to Warner's expectations and they were looking for an out anyway.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Millstone

[uglyredhonda]

38 minutes ago, Millstone said:

I'm sure the last 3 albums were not living up to Warner's expectations and they were looking for an out anyway.

 

I'd thought that same thing. That's why I was a little surprised (and impressed) that they made this announcement - they easily could have just attributed to some factor like lukewarm sales and wish him the best.

 

 

1 hour ago, uglyredhonda said:

Btw - this also gives the media some cover to report the story.

 

Apparently, Global was locked and loaded.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7622398/matthew-good-abuse-accusations-hayley-mather/

 

Key detail in that story - he's been dropped by his management (Bernie Breen), too.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by uglyredhonda

[thenobody]

Haven’t been on this forum in a long while. Haven’t really listened to his music in awhile either, although not because of the issue at the heart of the discussion.
 

that being said, I do know one of those women and she came to me with her story over a month ago and man, it hurts. Not nearly as much as it must have hurt her but it hurts because it took so long for her to talk to me about this(her experiences with MG were a little under a decade ago) and I can understand why. Among the reasons includes the fact that we both met online through his music and it had help the both of us through some rough spots and the fact that we were still relatively new to each other at the time and experiences like that are extremely hard to share, especially in a world where until very recently, it was very easy for people to just dismiss you.

 

im not going to share details because it’s not my story but things she’s told me do match up with a few things she has told me at points, some other things that happened at the time and it kind of explains her reaction to a recent incident in her life that sounds quite a bit more reasonable right now. 
 

I’d also like to point out that the abusive behavior doesn’t have to be sexual assault or statutory rape to be abuse nor does it mean illegal actions aren’t made. From what she told me, it sounds a lot like he or those working on his behalf may have broken some laws. Even if there wasn’t, that doesn’t mean that it didn’t have a substantially negative impact on a persons life.
 

All it takes is being somebody with power and somebody vulnerable to their abuse and it looks pretty obvious to me that MG has found himself himself some vulnerable people all while using his mental illness as a shield and an excuse.

[gweeps]

So the guy deserves to lose his career because of some accusations that haven't even been proven in a court of law?

[uglyredhonda]

1 minute ago, gweeps said:

So the guy deserves to lose his career because of some accusations that haven't even been proven in a court of law?

 

Companies don't have to work with people they don't want to work with, unless a contract says they have to.

 

Personal opinion: his management dropping him is actually the big story here, and a big tell about the veracity of the accusations.

[crthiel]

15 minutes ago, gweeps said:

So the guy deserves to lose his career because of some accusations that haven't even been proven in a court of law?

We all know the way things work and the way they have worked for a long time is the court of public opinion has a say too. This isn't media skewing it because up until an hour ago, the media wasn't involved. This was information straight from victims. And it's not he said she said. It's around a dozen different "she saids" with no word from the man himself.  It's pretty damning and some people have seen enough to jump to their own conclusions and make up their minds. We don't need a court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in this case. Maybe you do....but several don't.

 

This is the way of the world.

[Williammunny11]

Matt just posted a response.

 

So now we have a classic ‘he said/she said’

 

not sure what I think, but Uglyredhonda is right: no one is under any obligation to work with Matt—that’s just how capitalism works.

 

 

[crthiel]

His response:

 

 

I do find it interesting his first statement is about being dropped from the label and not about the victims. He also only mentioned one victim and not the others who have come forward. And again he uses his mental health as a crutch.

[Millstone]

3 minutes ago, crthiel said:

His response:

 

 

I do find it interesting his first statement is about being dropped from the label and not about the victims. He also only mentioned one victim and not the others who have come forward. And again he uses his mental health as a crutch.

Maybe that's because his view is that there are no victims. 

 

You realize that mental illness results in some unpretty things, right? It's not all hashtags and TED talks.