Anyone know why the Matt Good subreddit went private?

[Moonlight_Graham]

8 hours ago, thenobody said:

Dudes have been going around with their tits hanging out since the dawn of time with pride. You ever been too a beach? Some dudes even will be their with their big ol’ titties hanging out, no bra. Some even be there with women with smaller breasts than the man has. You don’t see a lot of moral outrage when that happens. Ain’t nobody crying “save the children!” It’s almost as if this double standard on breasts is some result of men knowing they like to think with their dicks deciding the only way that men can not think with their dicks is to lay that burden on women to not make us think with our dicks because we our powerless to stop ourselves.

 

Maybe instead we can just stop thinking with our dicks and teach our sons not to think with their dicks and maybe it won’t be so weird when mom shows some skin just like it mostly isn’t weird to see mom with another cosmetic change in their appearance like tattoos or piercings.

 

If MG got penis enlargement surgery and kept posting IG pics of himself in tight underwear i'd be saying the exact same thing.  This isn't about men vs women so stop turning it into that.  My point is that they all seem like self-serving narcissists and make me gag, including MG.  And that doesn't mean what Hayley is saying isn't true and that she wasn't emotionally abused and lied to and cheated on.  Nobody deserves that.  I feel bad for all the alleged victims who have shared their stories.

[RickDalton]

https://mgtimesup.tumblr.com/

 

I read some of the statements, I have not gathered an opinion at this time 

[Chris85]

9 minutes ago, RickDalton said:

https://mgtimesup.tumblr.com/

 

I read some of the statements, I have not gathered an opinion at this time 

This one was also referenced as well, https://www.recoveringmatthewgoodfan.com

[RickDalton]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mattgood/

 

There are may discussion on going regarding the allegations still no hard evidence

[Jessafur]

I've waited a long time before speaking my mind on this, but I just want to chime in with what little I have to offer. One of the few interactions I've had with Matt still irks me a little. In the grand scheme of things it's really minor, but it affected me nonetheless. It's from the comments section of a Facebook post from over a decade ago. I was only 14 at the time when I made the comment, and my profile photo was very obviously that of a little kid. Looking back at the way I worded that comment I can see how he would have thought I was trying to be rude, but I genuinely was saying that it was kind of him to offer an insight to the making of the album. Regardless of my intentions, the fact that he would lash back at a 14 year old on a public comment section still kind of shocks me. And apparently I'm not the only young person he did something like that too. There's a twitter post someone made last year before this was all happening wherein they mentioned that when they were 15, Matt shit over their music because they made a passing criticism of the string parts on one of Matt's songs. 

 

 

 

I don't know about you, but if that's the way that he treats some of his younger fans when he thinks they've shown a bit of back talk, then I have to imagine that in all likelihood much of what he is being accused of is true, at least in part. Matthew's music will likely always hold a place in my heart, but I don't think I'll ever be buying another one of his LPs.

 

Some of the comments on here have also been very disheartening to read. The reactions some of the people here have shown are why it is hard for people to come forward in the first place. I've debated posting this for days knowing that I'm going to just get laughed off for letting his interaction with me have the sort of impact it did. I'm fully anticipating that people are going to tell me that I shouldn't have been holding on to this comment for 10 minutes, let alone 10 years. As an adult I would agree, but as a child even simple words like that can hurt a lot - and those words came from my hero. The comment no longer leaves me upset but it does leave the same sour taste in my mouth that these other allegations now do. 

 

I doubt I'll be posting on here for a while, but I'll probably lurk as this all unfolds. Wishing you all the best during these times. 

[adrianf74]

12 hours ago, RickDalton said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mattgood/

 

There are may discussion on going regarding the allegations still no hard evidence

Read the next two posts after yours on this forum and ask give it some pondering.  His public bad actions over the past 15 years or so have been more or less similar in nature. Add in his lack of denial/acknowledgment, and lawyered up statement this past week, and it should be pretty easy to draw a conclusion. When you see longterm Bored members sharing their stories, which is brave enough to do, they’re not being posted for shits and giggles — it’s gotta be hard going back to those memories and putting them into words.  Thanks @Jessafur and @sharon for having the courage to do that.  I’m sorry any of that ever happened to you. 
 

Add to that other fans saying the same, and a lot of this has been heavily rumoured for many, many years: there’s simply a pattern of bad choices and poor behaviour on MG’s part. What you want to or don't want to believe past that is truly up to the individual. 

[Idealich]

I think that ultimately, any discussion about belief or ‘proof’ will just end up going in circles. For some, the amount of proof that they would need to morally condemn MG would be so extreme that it would border on impossible to acquire, and even if impossible proof was put in front of them, I suspect some would still think he didn’t do anything wrong. At the same time, I do think that there is another group that uncritically accepts anything online without reflection, and just assumes that since MG might not be the saint that they imagined him to be, instead they should destroy him and his reputation. I think this kind of black-and-white thinking is precisely what online discourse promotes and unfortunately won’t allow any nuanced consideration of the situation.

I think what is often forgotten is that someone can be both an amazing artist who has done important advocacy, and at the same time someone who has emotionally harmed those around them, perhaps even unintentionally. I suspect that, as I mentioned in my earlier post, MG probably doesn’t feel as if he’s done anything wrong, and probably also never sat down and thought “how can I painstakingly develop a strategy to manipulate women to sleep with me?” I think over the years he probably has developed some habits unconsciously that helped to satisfy his needs in a reliable way, that leveraged his talents (as a musician) and led to some temporary satisfaction on his end, and emotional harm on the other (perhaps not even consistently- some may have not experienced it as harmful). I think everyone leverages their talents, resources, and emotions when flirting and seducing (both men and women), but ultimately doing so in a way that is experienced by some as abusive or manipulative is a problem. As I attempted to also explain, legal issues and moral issues are not necessarily equivalent (law is codified morality, but there are lots of outrageous things that are not legally wrong). MG does not appear at this point to have broken the law. So instead, moral outrage has to play out socially, and what I’d like to see as a fan is that he shows some accountability instead of just denying what these women have experienced. Even if he doesn’t believe that he did something wrong, instead of outright denying the experiences of others, it would be ideal if he were to say that he maybe doesn’t recognize for himself what he did wrong, but that it’s very clear he’s led to harm for others, and that he now has some responsibility to uncover what habits and tendencies he has developed that have contributed to the emotional harm of others. Then, if he steps aside and gets some help, I’m convinced that he would return as a better person- and one who would be accepted back into the music industry.

Pragmatically speaking, I do have some concerns about the consequences of this situation for those who are ‘fans’ and who want to be able to continue to listen to his music. I think what is often troubling for those that experience this situation as a “mob” “cancelling” MG is that they feel that they are being indirectly told by others (including now his management and label) that they ought to no longer consume his music. Of course, I don’t think this is a ‘mob’ or anything of that sort, but I still am frustrated by people who tell others that they ‘ought’ to not listen to a “bad person.” MG is not a bad person. He is a person. A complex person, who has done both harm and good in his life. No one is just ‘a good person’ or a ‘bad person.’ I think every musician, like every person on earth, has made good and bad choices in their lives, and have hurt people around them. And I know that from my experiences being alive, I haven’t always atoned for being an asshole to people, nor have people always atoned for being assholes towards me. Ultimately, we all hurt each other constantly and we grow from that hurt and hopefully learn to do better.

MG is in a pivotal moment now where he can choose how he reacts to this situation and those choices will ultimately affect what he can do in the future- whether he could be signed by a label again, whether his music will be widely available again, whether fans will ever get to support him again in the future (…and whether fans will ever get a printing of WLRRR on vinyl…damn it). I don’t want to be told that I can’t listen to his music again by a label or by people online…but thankfully I’ve been able to get my hands on most everything he’s released and so no one can tell me when and how I consume his music at this point. That being said, it is sad that this may mean others can’t be as easily exposed to his art (which is of course the consequence of his playing out publicly)- unless MG changes his whole approach to handling this situation. So, pragmatically, the way I’m approaching this is to ensure that I have access to his music whenever I want (i.e. not by streaming since that access can be changed). Otherwise the ball is in MG’s court. He will ultimately determine whether he tours, whether he regains fans he lost, and whether we will ever have access to his back catalogue again. Let’s see how this plays out- the best thing we can do as fans (or ex-fans) is to encourage him to seek help and show accountability (and encourage those he has hurt to also seek help for the pain they’re also experiencing so that they're also able to recover).

[RickDalton]

I’ve been reading over the screen captures of peoples experience with Matthew. There are 4 stories in total not 25, so I’m not sure who these abused women are. Of the 4 stories 2 are believable and only 1 of the stories is “bad” but its from 2002 when he was still bi polar and undiagnosed. So we have a trend of bad relationships, he cheats on his wife(s). Matthew is not first person to do this and will not be the last. The problem is he is being labelled as abusive toward women. The news article is published as if he a predator which he is not.

 

Based on the experiences published here and from reddit, it is confirmed he can be a jerk but this does not warrant the termination of his record label.

Hayley Mather went to great troubles to make the issue more serious than it needed to be, I have been doing some digging and she isn’t the best of people either. Matthew has a history of dating the wrong people personally I wouldn't have touched Hayley Mather with 10-foot pole. She is like alive grenade waiting to go off. It really come across as a bad break up from someone isn’t sta,ble themselves.

 

With that being said he is not a serial abuser. He is however an asshole which we all know, I happen to like Matthew personality it good to have people who speak their mind. Maybe Matthew has some growing to do but he has come a long way, mental health can be tricky (I’m speaking from experience). When you are the medication it doesn’t work 100% you never feel like yourself and decision making can be askew. I’m certain this is why he has had so many failed relationships.

 

I have spent good amount of time researching this topic and trust that Matthew is telling the truth. If anything, we should gather together and have the new outlets issue a retraction as there is no proof of being a certified abuser towards women. Over the last 3 decades it is clear that Matthew has done more good than harm and we should appreciate his charitable work.

 

This is not how a Canadian rock legend should be remembered.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by RickDalton
Typo

[Millstone]

11 minutes ago, RickDalton said:

I’ve been reading over the screen captures of peoples experience with Matthew. There are 4 stories in total not 25, so I’m not sure who these abused women are. Of the 4 stories 2 are believable and only 1 of the stories is “bad” but its from 2002 when he was still bi polar and undiagnosed. So we have a trend of bad relationships, he cheats on his wife(s). Matthew is not first person to do this and will not be the last. The problem is he is being labelled as abusive toward women. The news article is published as if he a predator which he is not.

 

Based on the experiences published here and from reddit, it is confirmed he can be a jerk but this does not warrant the termination of his record label.

Hayley Mather went to great troubles to make the issue more serious than it needed to be, I have been doing some digging and she isn’t the best of people either. Matthew has a history of dating the wrong people personally I would have touched Hayley Mather with 10-foot pole. She is like alive grenade waiting to go off. It really come across as a bad break up from someone isn’t sable themselves.

 

With that being said he is not a serial abuser. He is however an asshole which we all know, I happen to like Matthew personality it good to have people who speak their mind. Maybe Matthew has some growing to do but he has come a long way mental health can be tricky (I’m speaking from experience). When you are the medication it doesn’t work 100% you never feel like yourself and decision making can be askew. I’m certain this is why he has had so many filed relationships.

 

I have spent good amount of time researching this topic and trust that Matthew is telling the truth. If anything, we should gather together and have the new outlets issue a retraction as there is no proof of being a certified abuser towards women. Over the last 3 decades it is clear that Matthew has done more good than harm and we should appreciate his charitable work.

 

This is not how a Canadian rock legend should be remembered.

 

Don't worry... the people 'cancelling' MG were never MG fans in the first place.

[uglyredhonda]

23 minutes ago, RickDalton said:

I have spent good amount of time researching this topic and trust that Matthew is telling the truth.

 

That's not how this works, dude. You don't have the authority to be judge and jury, draw a conclusion, and claim that you're right and we all just have to accept it.

 

As has been pointed out over and over again, every person here will make their own judgement. Their judgement is no more or less valid than yours.

[Angela]

Why do people feel the need to come on here and goad everyone? Just stop. Everyone on here has their own storey and their own opinion. We all are or once were huge fans. Some of us will continue supporting his music going forward and some of us won't. 

 

Maybe be thankful that you actually have ZERO idea of what it's really like on the other end. And maybe try and have some empathy and compassion for people that have been through something,  big or small its theirs and has affected them negatively. Just because it didnt happen to you or you dont know someone who was doesn't mean it's not there and real for other people. Again, just stop.

 

Like a lot of people here, I have decades of the best memories of being a huge fan and collecting rare memorabilia, traveling to NYC just to see him in a shitty club and going to see him in a bunch of different cities each tour, meeting really great people through M+ and sharing with them all the really cool things that MG shared with us during that time. Will I go to another show or buy anything new he puts out, those days are probably done now. 

 

If I knew I did something to make someone feel bad or afraid or whatever I would be absolutely mortified and would fall over myself apologizing and figure out how to better myself. Isn't that what people do? 

 

Just wanted to say that I appreciate a lot of what people say on here, a lot of you seem like decent caring folks. 

[Moonlight_Graham]

From everything I've read it sounds like Matt has some psychological issues that go beyond his bipolar disorder, rooted in a narcissistic victim complex.  Sometimes people are victims to things outside their control, but that's different than having a victim complex, where a person blames all of their own failures on factors beyond their control, which is convenient way to avoid taking personal responsibility for anything.  I'm sure MG is probably still blaming all of this on his bipolarity to protect the ego from having to admit fault.

 

Add all of the manipulation, lying, and cheating, and he has issues that have nothing to do with his mental illness and everything having to do with needing to grow the hell up and take responsibility for his actions like an adult is supposed to do.  I hope he seeks therapy for this and gets his life on order.

[RickDalton]

This is all I can think of 

 

 

[sanstexte]

Long time lurker, first time poster and I have a few points I'd like to make

 

1) Matthew's music has always held enormous meaning to me. It's gotten me through horrible times. Up until recently he was my favourite musical artist full stop. 

 

2) This doesn't suddenly make his music horribly irredeemable or terrible. 

 

3) This doesn't mean others can't still choose to listen to his old music. Nor does it means others cannot listen to whatever he puts out in the future. In fact, I haven't seen a single person who believes Hayley saying that we have to stop listening to Matt's music. 

 

4) Actually, you know what? This isn't even about Matt's music.

 

5) it's about the people he has hurt both emotionally and mentally over the years. Even if Matt believes he is blameless or if he believes his bipolarity absolves him of all sin.

 

6) Hayley gains absolutely nothing from this. Do  any of you really think that ANY woman would want to be known forevermore as "woman who accuses their ex of being abusive?" Do you think having that kind of reputation attached to your name makes higher ups in the entertainment industry more likely to hire you? I want those of you who do to think really hard about that. Hayley coming forward has only made her life more difficult going forward.

 

7) The media has been super reticent to share anything. The only reason that Global article was even published was because of Warner's tweet acknowledging the situation. There are interviews being done - more things will hopefully come out soon. 

 

8 ) Why do victims hold back on speaking up? The fear of being labelled "ticking time bombs" or "wronged women with a vengeance plot". The fact that there will always be people constantly doubting them and telling them that they are wrong and they were not victimized. The fear that it will be held as "he said she said" and more often than not people side with he.

 

That's it, that's my input. I support the women who have come forward or will be coming forward. I support Hayley. Doing so doesn't mean I expect others to do the same as me. Nor do I actually expect Matt's career to suffer that greatly from this. We've seen plenty of famous men continue to have thriving careers after worse allegations  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jessafur]

2 hours ago, RickDalton said:

This is all I can think of 

 

 

 

That's absolutely disgusting. None of the victims have claimed to not know Matt, they all have had real experiences with him. I don't know what kind of "evidence" you want that hasn't already been shown (emails, leaked DMs, him being dropped by Warner and his management). 

 

Look, it's fine if you want to continue to support Matt and listen to his music; no one's saying that you can't. It's not fine however, to belittle the victims like this. It's callous and unnecessary. I seriously hope that you think about why you're so reluctant to believe that even one of these stories could be true. Even if 99% of these allegations were false, that 1% being true should make you rethink what kind of a person Matt was behind the curtains. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Jessafur

[Sly Botts]

5 hours ago, sanstexte said:

Long time lurker, first time poster and I have a few points I'd like to make

 

1) Matthew's music has always held enormous meaning to me. It's gotten me through horrible times. Up until recently he was my favourite musical artist full stop. 

 

2) This doesn't suddenly make his music horribly irredeemable or terrible. 

 

3) This doesn't mean others can't still choose to listen to his old music. Nor does it means others cannot listen to whatever he puts out in the future. In fact, I haven't seen a single person who believes Hayley saying that we have to stop listening to Matt's music. 

 

4) Actually, you know what? This isn't even about Matt's music.

 

5) it's about the people he has hurt both emotionally and mentally over the years. Even if Matt believes he is blameless or if he believes his bipolarity absolves him of all sin.

 

6) Hayley gains absolutely nothing from this. Do  any of you really think that ANY woman would want to be known forevermore as "woman who accuses their ex of being abusive?" Do you think having that kind of reputation attached to your name makes higher ups in the entertainment industry more likely to hire you? I want those of you who do to think really hard about that. Hayley coming forward has only made her life more difficult going forward.

 

7) The media has been super reticent to share anything. The only reason that Global article was even published was because of Warner's tweet acknowledging the situation. There are interviews being done - more things will hopefully come out soon. 

 

8 ) Why do victims hold back on speaking up? The fear of being labelled "ticking time bombs" or "wronged women with a vengeance plot". The fact that there will always be people constantly doubting them and telling them that they are wrong and they were not victimized. The fear that it will be held as "he said she said" and more often than not people side with he.

 

That's it, that's my input. I support the women who have come forward or will be coming forward. I support Hayley. Doing so doesn't mean I expect others to do the same as me. Nor do I actually expect Matt's career to suffer that greatly from this. We've seen plenty of famous men continue to have thriving careers after worse allegations  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*Comments Deleted*

Edited February 19, 2021 by Sly Botts
My comments were not necessary.

[daniel_v]

16 hours ago, Moonlight_Graham said:

From everything I've read it sounds like Matt has some psychological issues that go beyond his bipolar disorder, rooted in a narcissistic victim complex.  Sometimes people are victims to things outside their control, but that's different than having a victim complex, where a person blames all of their own failures on factors beyond their control, which is convenient way to avoid taking personal responsibility for anything.  I'm sure MG is probably still blaming all of this on his bipolarity to protect the ego from having to admit fault.

 

Add all of the manipulation, lying, and cheating, and he has issues that have nothing to do with his mental illness and everything having to do with needing to grow the hell up and take responsibility for his actions like an adult is supposed to do.  I hope he seeks therapy for this and gets his life on order.

I wanted to wait until Matt had made a substantive public post about all of this before I chimed in publicly (because I do believe that everyone should have a chance to defend themselves before being publicly judged/having their persona executed), but since you're echoing a common comment that many people have already shared, I guess now is as good a time as any to share some thoughts I've had in private. 

If I can, I'd like to start a discussion around several things that include our perceptions around following: 

1- People with mental illness and our understanding of specific kinds of mental illness/disorders,
2- How co-morbidities like addiction and personality disorders can, in many cases, all make each other far, far worse and,
3- How fame can also negatively affect the psychology of those who suffer from all of the above.

Before I do so though, I would like to add an apology of sorts, as a parentheses around all of this.

To Matt, I'm sure it must be a beyond brutal experience to watch your personal life made public, ripped apart, and dissected to its very core by random people, including myself. Whether you deserve it or not, it can’t be a pleasant experience. Likewise, I am fully aware that without full context, there is always going to be nuance that the public is not privy to. Either way, the following is in no way meant to judge you. It is simply meant to pose questions that might be beneficial for everyone (including yourself?) to consider. Maybe you already have or maybe you haven’t. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. I’m simply making guesses based based on my own experience working in psychiatric health care over the last 12/13 years and based on things that have been shared recently/in the past. 

For those who feel he has negatively affected them, to have to see people arguing, rationalizing, or defending him, and then judging you in turn, must be incredibly frustrating. As such, I never like doing these types of posts either given the kinds reactions they can unintentionally create, but since the cat is already out of the bag so to speak, I believe sometimes the only way past something is straight through. It is my hope, despite however uncomfortable this subject might be for some, that the dialogue and thought process might bring about some considerations that people haven't considered yet. 

Next, I am going to be using the word "alleged" at times. I understand why many people dislike the word, but given that there is always nuance and context missing when there is only one side sharing their experiences, I have to be open to the possibility (however unlikely) that new information could come out and change my perception to one degree or another. I am, after all, only and outsider. 

Lastly, if anyone is going to comment on the following, please read the entire thing. I know it is extremely long, but in order to engage with this subject productively it would be beneficial to read everything rather than just one part, get pissed, reply to it, and ignore the rest. 

Anyways, getting started...

1- Mental Illness and Type One Bipolarity

Now, I've read many people rightfully point out that having a mental illness does not give one a pass for shitty or abhorrent behavior. I happen to agree, completely (and I think when Matt finally does resurface he will as well). Likewise, plenty do indeed live incredibly productive and fruitful lives when they are on the right medications, getting the therapy they need, and not suffering from the effects of addictions. They deserve applause and recognition- certainly not unintentional stigma. Matt has, himself, made a lot of us in this country aware of that fact. However, as someone who has struggled with addiction and mental health to a small extent himself, and worked in a psychiatric institution since 2008, I can also tell you with complete certainty that not all people with specific mental illnesses always have the same symptoms, behavioral/psychosis patterns, or co-morbidities. This is because mental illness- like all illness- can be worse for one person than it is for another depending on each specific person’s own contributing factors. 

To expand upon that point, while again I do not say the following to excuse the alleged behavior in any way, I do think it worthwhile to remind people there is a difference between condemning a behavioral pattern/actions that come about as a result of psychosis vs. condemning the actual human being who suffers from them. Indeed, to me it's one of those "hate the sin, not the sinner" type situations. To get at this point, it is worth examining/reminding ourselves of some of the symptoms that sometimes accompany Type 1 Bipolarity, aside from the polar or mixed mood swings:

-Substance abuse and suicidal behavior

-Hypersexuality

-Delusions

-Incredible impulse control issues (especially when there is substance abuse or addiction involved)

Now, the hyper sexuality thing is something I think many people don’t ever think about because it is a much less common symptom, but it is not by any means unheard of and I see it from the occasional patient here and there where I work. Again, without excusing the behavior, given that many others around the world who are bipolar suffer from it, I do wonder how much the massive serotonin and dopamine deficiencies (coupled with massive cortisol waves) might have played a role in their (and Matt’s alleged) behavior over the years.

After all, even  Matt's own description of suffering through his manic episodes is like something out of a Steven King novel: “At the best, imagine the thing you fear worst, imagine being shoved in a coffin with it, then being buried underground, and then having that coffin start shrinking. Then imagine that times a thousand and add snakes and spiders just for good measure.”

If I suffered from that I have no earthly clue what I would do to try and ease that kind of suffering and sex has been scientifically proven to increase serotonin/dopamine production in human beings.

Again, as I have said before and will continue to say, none of this excuses the behavior. Nothing can. I am simply trying to illuminate certain facts that might help us understand the behavior.

With regards to impulse control, I have seen more than a few online pictures/messages that these women have shared that were apparently from Matt. They include some incredibly embarrassing comments and questions from him that, to me, scream out impulse control issues related to bipolar episodes (and even in some of them Matt mentions going through a manic episode). To try and get an idea of what it’s like to have these impulse control problems, think of how most of us have internal, mental filters that stop us from saying everything we privately think. The pre-frontal cortex of our brains allows those of us who are not impaired to filter these thoughts from being voiced or acted upon.  However, those who suffer from improperly controlled bipolarity do not have a proper filter. It’s almost like having a broken arm or leg that one might attempt to walk on or use- the results simply won’t be pretty. This issue is then compounded by the fact that with the passage of age most people’s bipolarity becomes even worse.

That considered, there are then the issues I mentioned in tandem with mental illness: co-morbidities of personality disorders and addiction.

Addictions

With regards to addiction, I am brought back to an old manifesto where Matt basically admitted he used to be an alcoholic. After remembering this I started thinking about how he started drinking again after his first divorce after around 15-16 years sober. Then I remembered all the people I've met through the concurrent disorders unit that I work on and how even people who hadn't had a drink in years relapsed for whatever reason and then saw their lives spiral out of control as their mental illness and personality disorders took back the steering wheel. Even my aunt, who has been sober for 22 years, still attends A.A meetings because she knows if she were to slip that the consequences for herself and those around her would be disastrous. To that end, I can't help but wonder what Matt's alcohol use has done to his own mental illness.  

Then there is the issue surrounding the fact that Matt has allegedly done all of this for the purpose of having more sex. One does not risk marriages, relationships, and indeed their careers without being addicted to what it is they are trying to get. One does, however, lie and cheat like a professional in order to get a hit of whatever it is they are addicted to. That I can assure you of. As such, a sex addiction is also quite likely. At the very least I have to imagine that both of these possible addictions (especially the alcohol) have decreased the efficacy of his medications; at worst, it is not out of the realm of possibility at all that it has made both his bipolarity and possible personality disorder so, so much worse.

Personality Disorders

I have (for a while in private now) wondered if Matt suffers from a co-morbidity to his bipolarity in the form of a cluster b personality disorder. To be absolutely clear, I do not ponder this as an insult. Many people are hesitant to accept looking into such a possibility because PD's are considered by some people who don’t understand them (as was illustrated in the quote at the top of this post) to be a cluster of behavioral patterns/problems that could be controlled if only the person suffering from it would just "mature up". This is not accurate, imo. Personality disorders often take an incredible amount of self-awareness and specific therapy (such as dialectical behavioral therapy, schema therapy, and or cognitive behavioral therapy) to undue/escape from, even though they absolutely can be defeated with the honest dedication. 

Personality disorders often find their roots in childhood trauma, sometimes from trauma in adulthood, or from life styles that people find themselves a part of later in life. They continue to solidify the longer they go unnoticed and the more the behavior goes unchecked. Essentially, the behaviors are like muscles- the more they get used, the bigger they get. This is obviously a problem when the behaviors are harmful to those enacting them and those they are enacted against. Some of these behaviors include over reactions to very innocuous events (Borderline Personality Disorder); disregard for others' needs or feelings and or persistent lying, stealing, using aliases, conning others (Anti-Social Personality Disorder); or excessively emotional, dramatic or sexually provocative actions to gain attention (histrionic personality disorder). Having a personality disorder should not be something with stigma any more than a mood disorder like bipolarity (and they are both considered to be under the umbrella of mental illness).

Anyways, I have wondered all of this because as others have pointed out, a mood disorder does not by itself explain all of the things we have found out about Matt (both from the past and more recently). However, a cluster B personality disorder- in conjunction with his bipolarity and a possible addiction- absolutely would explain everything that I am aware of. I would assume his psychiatrist would have ruled this out when doing a diagnosis years ago, but psychiatrists are human too and capable of mistakes. Likewise, new psychiatrists, upon seeing a patient for the first time, may update a diagnosis by changing it or adding to it.

Then lastly, there is Matt’s fame to consider.

The Effect of Fame and Being Dependent on a Certain Lifestyle to Make a Living

Imagine your life being made up of being surrounded by a majority of people who do not have most other people attempting to interact with you in a way that the majority of regular people do.

Some people owe their living to you (such as your band mates and stage techs); others worship you to a degree you never asked for (fans, obviously); others are sycophantic towards you in order to gain favor; others are afraid to piss you off so you when you do things that would get a regular person told off (which might prevent the behavior in the future) you instead simply get a fake laugh or awkward/quiet retreat. Then imagine- because you’ve spent the last few decades making a living in this type of an environment-what it would be like to try and find/learn a new trade when this is all you’ve ever known.

Then imagine all of the other above things I just discussed:

-a mental illness that produces severe mood swings, delusions, hyper sexuality, and suicidal ideation;  

-a personality disorder that is comprised of horrible behavioral patterns that hardly anyone probably wants to discuss with you for fear of being on the tail end of those behaviors;

-and lastly an addiction (possibly several) that makes all of the above 1000 times worse.

Again, without excusing the behavior, I can’t imagine how any of this would shape me as a human being and as such have to remind myself not to judge someone who wears shoes I have never had to walk in. 

Clarity

To be very clear, again, I do not bring all of this up to excuse any of the alleged behavior. The behavior and the people it has hurt are inexcusable. I bring it up to get myself (and who ever else is willing) to try and consider the psychology, history, and neuro-chemical production that might be behind the kinds of choices I or they would make in day to day life if suffering from all of the above. In doing so I am able to let go of any anger I feel while reading all of the hurt and contagious anger others understandably feel towards Matt and simply hope that everyone (both those hurt by Matt's actions and possibly Matt himself) can use all of these thoughts as a way to possibly reflect and heal themselves rather than get lost in further hurt/accusations or a mob mentality of simplistic, binary accusations regarding good vs. evil. Such mind frames, while  understandable, imo, do little to help progress. Don't get me wrong, sometimes a swift and brutal response can be an effective way to stop something. Likewise, ignoring a problem only guarantees it will continue. However, other times, a response that is too brutal only ends up creating a counter intuitive response that further entrenches the behavior/psychology that caused the harm in the first place. As a once disgraced journalist (and now recovered addict), Johann Hari gave a wonderful Ted Talk a couple of years ago regarding public perceptions of how to properly address/help addicts. Shockingly, shaming them was not exactly at the top of productive strategies.

To me, with everything said and considered, I think Jude Law’s thoughts with regards to online judgment are perhaps a good road map to consider: “I’m a great believer in appreciating, understanding, learning, and keeping an open dialogue that makes everybody feel comfortable and everybody included. Boycotting or withdrawing support from someone who has offended is understandable and can indeed be effective, but it can also stop people from listening to one another. I’d like to think that respectful dialogue is where change lives.”

All of this considered, I find myself very much in line with what Idealich said further up this page. I will not blindly defend what can not be defended and I will not shame any women who have come forwards about how they were involved with Matt,  but neither will jump on any binary, pitchfork wagons that seek to simplify the nature of Matt himself as either fully light or dark. No one is entirely good or evil. We are all capable of both wonderful and horrible things and it seems Matt has done both over the last 3 decades. A friend of mine discussed this some in private a few weeks ago:

" I've noticed in the last few years people have lost the ability to see shades of grey and want the world to exist in black and white.  Its like if one part of a person is deplorable every aspect of that person and all they do must be deplorable.  I find this notion ridiculous.  Lets say you found out tomorrow that Abraham Lincoln savagely beat his wife.  Should we throw out the merits of the Emancipation Proclamation because of it? What if you found out one of the worlds greatest philanthropists had been cheating on his wife with a hooker, does it undo the good deeds and make them worthless? A statue of John A MacDonald was removed in Victoria because he was racist, which is absolutely terrible, but does it abolish the integral contributions to the birth of a nation? These are extreme examples I am using to illustrate a point.  I am not comparing Beautiful Midnight to the Emancipation Proclamation in importance. I am just trying to illustrate there can be a line dividing good deeds and bad and how a bad deed doesn't have to destroy the merits of a good one.  The current trend seems to be that any negative trait a person has overrides any positive ones.  But as a mature and free thinking society are we so fragile we can no longer be presented with all the information and decide on our own if a person is good, bad or most likely somewhere in between?  Few among us could live to such a standard and quite frankly if we held all art to that standard many of us would have to give up on a wide swath of things that have touched us, inspired us and brought moments of great joy and understanding to our lives because of what they were and often in spite of those who created them.

...I’ve heard many good stories about Matt too, stories where he waited around for hours after a show to sign autographs and take pictures, moments where he phoned suicidal fans in the middle of the night and stayed on the line until professional help could arrive...they also didn’t change my appreciation of the music. For me the person and the art have just always been two separate things.  It reminds me of a quote I heard once "don't worship the man because every man is corruptible.  Worship the idea because it is pure." And I suppose that’s how I feel about art and why while these allegations are upsetting it doesn’t change at all what the mans music has and still does mean to me.  Each song he wrote was created by him, but it was given meaning by each of us individually by how we let it influence our lives.  

For anyone who feels differently I of course understand, and I again hope this message doesn’t rub anyone the wrong way as it was not my intention, but I do no service to myself or others by not speaking how I truly feel on the issue.  Thanks to everyone else who has shared their thoughts and opinions here."

Again, without excusing the things that cannot be excused, I agree with the above. 

Ever since 1999 when I first heard LMU on the radio, Matt was always there challenging me to consider the world; to consider what it might be like to walk in other people’s shoes; and to consider who I wanted to be as a human being.

Hell, I even once offered to delete my account here last year because out of the 3 times he had posted here recently, 2 of them were in response to something I had said where he was essentially defending a position of his own and I felt bad that he might view this place as somewhere he always had to defend himself. In response to my private offer to delete my account, this was his initial response:

“First, DO NOT stop posting on the Bored. Second, disagree with me as MUCH as you can. Because in that void, which in these times is a vacuum, lives debate.”

He could have gotten rid of someone who challenged him and caused him to have to defend himself simply by taking me up on my offer, but he didn’t. That, to me, said something tangible about his character. To be very clear, again, I’m not saying any of the above excuses what he has allegedly done. It doesn’t. What all of it considered though does is remind me that people can have 2, or even more, sides to them.

Final Thoughts

I guess the only last thing to consider here is what is an appropriate response to all of the things we have learned in the last few weeks. Given that I can only speak for myself and that it is not my place to tell others to feel, I can only share my own thoughts. Without excusing anything, or taking any sides, I will not judge anyone: not the people sharing their stories or even Matt himself. When it comes to those sharing their stories they are obviously coming from a place of hurt (justified or unjustified; black, white or grey).

When it comes to Matt, again, I keep returning to the phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner". In doing so it should allow me to remember the good aspects of Matt's personality and psyche, while still condemning the alleged behavior that may have resulted from his bipolarity and (imo) very possible personality disorder/addictions.

To those who have been hurt by him, I hope you find closure/healing and I appreciate you sharing your stories.

To Matt, as a fan of yours for over 2 decades, I do not hate you or think you are a horrible person. I think you are simply like countless individuals I have met over the last 12 years- incredibly flawed, but absolutely not without redeemable traits either. If you were to get yourself admitted to a concurrent disorders/dual diagnosis program somewhere in B.C I truly do think that- like so many other people I’ve met who have destroyed their lives/hurt those around them- you would begin be able to find the missing pieces whose invisibility has led to all of this madness. Once having done so- like so many I have met- you might be able to excise the darkness that resides in you and start living a better life. As Jeff Tweedy from Wilco (who also suffers from bipolarity) once said, contrary to the popular belief, you don’t need destruction in order to breath creation.

I hope, as crappy as this has been for most involved, that rather than make anyone weaker, more angry or bitter, or mentally unstable, that in the long run this will eventually do the opposite and create an opportunity for people to heal, grow, and move beyond the hurt that has resulted from all of this.

Thanks for reading.

Edited February 19, 2021 by daniel_v

[sanstexte]

It appears I can't edit, but my post was mostly in response to a lot of things I've read that either imply or outright state that those who believe the allegations want Matt crucified or that we're claiming others need to completely throw out his music - which is not the case. 

 

Terrible things have been said about those who have shared their comments, hell, the night Matt made his statement Haley's instagram was flooded with negative and completely misogynistic comments towards her. Matt knew at that time other allegations were out but he only responded to the one about Hayley. 

 

I'm not listening to his stuff anymore but again, based on a lot of the vile comments or even death of the artist, I have my doubts Matt will truly be cancelled (and really, has anyone ever truly been cancelled?). Besides the majority of us who believe the allegations don't even want him cancelled (because it's not a thing that works or happens). We just want some accountability on his part and an acknowledgment that this isn't one isolated incident. 

 

I know there are people who are very worried about Matt's career but society as a whole always gives white men multiple chances. Talented white men even more so. Especially the "iconic" ones.
 

[Sly Botts]

51 minutes ago, daniel_v said:

To those who have been hurt by him, I hope you find closure/healing and I appreciate you sharing your stories.

To Matt, as a fan of yours for over 2 decades, I do not hate you or think you are a horrible person. I think you are simply like countless individuals I have met over the last 12 years- incredibly flawed, but absolutely not without redeemable traits either. If you were to get yourself admitted to a concurrent disorders/dual diagnosis program somewhere in B.C I truly do think that- like so many other people I’ve met who have destroyed their lives/hurt those around them- you would begin be able to find the missing pieces whose invisibility has led to all of this madness. Once having done so- like so many I have met- you might be able to excise the darkness that resides in you and start living a better life. As Jeff Tweedy from Wilco (who also suffers from bipolarity) once said, contrary to the popular belief, you don’t need destruction in order to breath creation.

I hope, as crappy as this has been for most involved, that rather than make anyone weaker, more angry or bitter, or mentally unstable, that in the long run this will eventually do the opposite and create an opportunity for people to heal, grow, and move beyond the hurt that has resulted from all of this.

Thanks for reading.

This. 

This is how I feel.  Thanks Daniel!  What I said earlier (and deleted) just sounded bad.

[gweeps]

1 hour ago, daniel_v said:

I wanted to wait until Matt had made a substantive public post about all of this before I chimed in publicly (because I do believe that everyone should have a chance to defend themselves before being publicly judged/having their persona executed), but since you're echoing a common comment that many people have already shared, I guess now is as good a time as any to share some thoughts I've had in private. 

If I can, I'd like to start a discussion around several things that include our perceptions around following: 

1- People with mental illness and our understanding of specific kinds of mental illness/disorders,
2- How co-morbidities like addiction and personality disorders can, in many cases, all make each other far, far worse and,
3- How fame can also negatively affect the psychology of those who suffer from all of the above.

Before I do so though, I would like to add an apology of sorts, as a parentheses around all of this.

To Matt, I'm sure it must be a beyond brutal experience to watch your personal life made public, ripped apart, and dissected to its very core by random people, including myself. Whether you deserve it or not, it can’t be a pleasant experience. Likewise, I am fully aware that without full context, there is always going to be nuance that the public is not privy to. Either way, the following is in no way meant to judge you. It is simply meant to pose questions that might be beneficial for everyone (including yourself?) to consider. Maybe you already have or maybe you haven’t. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. I’m simply making guesses based based on my own experience working in psychiatric health care over the last 12/13 years and based on things that have been shared recently/in the past. 

For those who feel he has negatively affected them, to have to see people arguing, rationalizing, or defending him, and then judging you in turn, must be incredibly frustrating. As such, I never like doing these types of posts either given the kinds reactions they can unintentionally create, but since the cat is already out of the bag so to speak, I believe sometimes the only way past something is straight through. It is my hope, despite however uncomfortable this subject might be for some, that the dialogue and thought process might bring about some considerations that people haven't considered yet. 

Next, I am going to be using the word "alleged" at times. I understand why many people dislike the word, but given that there is always nuance and context missing when there is only one side sharing their experiences, I have to be open to the possibility (however unlikely) that new information could come out and change my perception to one degree or another. I am, after all, only and outsider. 

Lastly, if anyone is going to comment on the following, please read the entire thing. I know it is extremely long, but in order to engage with this subject productively it would be beneficial to read everything rather than just one part, get pissed, reply to it, and ignore the rest. 

Anyways, getting started...

1- Mental Illness and Type One Bipolarity

Now, I've read many people rightfully point out that having a mental illness does not give one a pass for shitty or abhorrent behavior. I happen to agree, completely (and I think when Matt finally does resurface he will as well). Likewise, plenty do indeed live incredibly productive and fruitful lives when they are on the right medications, getting the therapy they need, and not suffering from the effects of addictions. They deserve applause and recognition- certainly not unintentional stigma. Matt has, himself, made a lot of us in this country aware of that fact. However, as someone who has struggled with addiction and mental health to a small extent himself, and worked in a psychiatric institution since 2008, I can also tell you with complete certainty that not all people with specific mental illnesses always have the same symptoms, behavioral/psychosis patterns, or co-morbidities. This is because mental illness- like all illness- can be worse for one person than it is for another depending on each specific person’s own contributing factors. 

To expand upon that point, while again I do not say the following to excuse the alleged behavior in any way, I do think it worthwhile to remind people there is a difference between condemning a behavioral pattern/actions that come about as a result of psychosis vs. condemning the actual human being who suffers from them. Indeed, to me it's one of those "hate the sin, not the sinner" type situations. To get at this point, it is worth examining/reminding ourselves of some of the symptoms that sometimes accompany Type 1 Bipolarity, aside from the polar or mixed mood swings:

-Substance abuse and suicidal behavior

-Hypersexuality

-Delusions

-Incredible impulse control issues (especially when there is substance abuse or addiction involved)

Now, the hyper sexuality thing is something I think many people don’t ever think about because it is a much less common symptom, but it is not by any means unheard of and I see it from the occasional patient here and there where I work. Again, without excusing the behavior, given that many others around the world who are bipolar suffer from it, I do wonder how much the massive serotonin and dopamine deficiencies (coupled with massive cortisol waves) might have played a role in their (and Matt’s alleged) behavior over the years.

After all, even  Matt's own description of suffering through his manic episodes is like something out of a Steven King novel: “At the best, imagine the thing you fear worst, imagine being shoved in a coffin with it, then being buried underground, and then having that coffin start shrinking. Then imagine that times a thousand and add snakes and spiders just for good measure.”

If I suffered from that I have no earthly clue what I would do to try and ease that kind of suffering and sex has been scientifically proven to increase serotonin/dopamine production in human beings.

Again, as I have said before and will continue to say, none of this excuses the behavior. Nothing can. I am simply trying to illuminate certain facts that might help us understand the behavior.

With regards to impulse control, I have seen more than a few online pictures/messages that these women have shared that were apparently from Matt. They include some incredibly embarrassing comments and questions from him that, to me, scream out impulse control issues related to bipolar episodes (and even in some of them Matt mentions going through a manic episode). To try and get an idea of what it’s like to have these impulse control problems, think of how most of us have internal, mental filters that stop us from saying everything we privately think. The pre-frontal cortex of our brains allows those of us who are not impaired to filter these thoughts from being voiced or acted upon.  However, those who suffer from improperly controlled bipolarity do not have a proper filter. It’s almost like having a broken arm or leg that one might attempt to walk on or use- the results simply won’t be pretty. This issue is then compounded by the fact that with the passage of age most people’s bipolarity becomes even worse.

That considered, there are then the issues I mentioned in tandem with mental illness: co-morbidities of personality disorders and addiction.

Addictions

With regards to addiction, I am brought back to an old manifesto where Matt basically admitted he used to be an alcoholic. After remembering this I started thinking about how he started drinking again after his first divorce after around 15-16 years sober. Then I remembered all the people I've met through the concurrent disorders unit that I work on and how even people who hadn't had a drink in years relapsed for whatever reason and then saw their lives spiral out of control as their mental illness and personality disorders took back the steering wheel. Even my aunt, who has been sober for 22 years, still attends A.A meetings because she knows if she were to slip that the consequences for herself and those around her would be disastrous. To that end, I can't help but wonder what Matt's alcohol use has done to his own mental illness.  

Then there is the issue surrounding the fact that Matt has allegedly done all of this for the purpose of having more sex. One does not risk marriages, relationships, and indeed their careers without being addicted to what it is they are trying to get. One does, however, lie and cheat like a professional in order to get a hit of whatever it is they are addicted to. That I can assure you of. As such, a sex addiction is also quite likely. At the very least I have to imagine that both of these possible addictions (especially the alcohol) have decreased the efficacy of his medications; at worst, it is not out of the realm of possibility at all that it has made both his bipolarity and possible personality disorder so, so much worse.

Personality Disorders

I have (for a while in private now) wondered if Matt suffers from a co-morbidity to his bipolarity in the form of a cluster b personality disorder. To be absolutely clear, I do not ponder this as an insult. Many people are hesitant to accept looking into such a possibility because PD's are considered by some people who don’t understand them (as was illustrated in the quote at the top of this post) to be a cluster of behavioral patterns/problems that could be controlled if only the person suffering from it would just "mature up". This is horribly inaccurate. They often take an incredible amount of self-awareness and specific therapy (such as dialectical behavioral therapy, schema therapy, and or cognitive behavioral therapy) to undue/escape from, even though they absolutely can be defeated with the honest dedication. 

Personality disorders often find their roots in childhood trauma, sometimes from trauma in adulthood, or from life styles that people find themselves a part of later in life. They continue to solidify the longer they go unnoticed and the more the behavior goes unchecked. Essentially, the behaviors are like muscles- the more they get used, the bigger they get. This is obviously a problem when the behaviors are harmful to those enacting them and those they are enacted against. Some of these behaviors include over reactions to very innocuous events (Borderline Personality Disorder); disregard for others' needs or feelings and or persistent lying, stealing, using aliases, conning others (Anti-Social Personality Disorder); or excessively emotional, dramatic or sexually provocative actions to gain attention (histrionic personality disorder). Having a personality disorder should not be something with stigma any more than a mood disorder like bipolarity (and they are both considered to be under the umbrella of mental illness).

Anyways, I have wondered all of this because as others have pointed out, a mood disorder does not by itself explain all of the things we have found out about Matt (both from the past and more recently). However, a cluster B personality disorder- in conjunction with his bipolarity and a possible addiction- absolutely would explain everything that I am aware of. I would assume his psychiatrist would have ruled this out when doing a diagnosis years ago, but psychiatrists are human too and capable of mistakes. Likewise, new psychiatrists, upon seeing a patient for the first time, may update a diagnosis by changing it or adding to it.

Then lastly, there is Matt’s fame to consider.

The Effect of Fame and Being Dependent on a Certain Lifestyle to Make a Living

Imagine your life being made up of being surrounded by a majority of people who do not have most other people attempting to interact with you in a way that the majority of regular people do.

Some people owe their living to you (such as your band mates and stage techs); others worship you to a degree you never asked for (fans, obviously); others are sycophantic towards you in order to gain favor; others are afraid to piss you off so you when you do things that would get a regular person told off (which might prevent the behavior in the future) you instead simply get a fake laugh or awkward/quiet retreat. Then imagine- because you’ve spent the last few decades making a living in this type of an environment-what it would be like to try and find/learn a new trade when this is all you’ve ever known.

Then imagine all of the other above things I just discussed:

-a mental illness that produces severe mood swings, delusions, hyper sexuality, and suicidal ideation;  

-a personality disorder that is comprised of horrible behavioral patterns that hardly anyone probably wants to discuss with you for fear of being on the tail end of those behaviors;

-and lastly an addiction (possibly several) that makes all of the above 1000 times worse.

Again, without excusing the behavior, I can’t imagine how any of this would shape me as a human being and as such have to remind myself not to judge someone who wears shoes I have never had to walk in. 

Clarity

To be very clear, again, I do not bring all of this up to excuse any of the alleged behavior. The behavior and the people it has hurt are inexcusable. I bring it up to get myself (and who ever else is willing) to try and consider the psychology, history, and neuro-chemical production that might be behind the kinds of choices I or they would make in day to day life if suffering from all of the above. In doing so I am able to let go of any anger I feel while reading all of the hurt and contagious anger others understandably feel towards Matt and simply hope that everyone (both those hurt by Matt's actions and possibly Matt himself) can use all of these thoughts as a way to possibly reflect and heal themselves rather than get lost in further hurt/accusations or a mob mentality of simplistic, binary accusations regarding good vs. evil. Such mind frames, while  understandable, imo, do little to help progress. Don't get me wrong, sometimes a swift and brutal response can be an effective way to stop something. Likewise, ignoring a problem only guarantees it will continue. However, other times, a response that is too brutal only ends up creating a counter intuitive response that further entrenches the behavior/psychology that caused the harm in the first place. As a once disgraced journalist (and now recovered addict), Johann Hari gave a wonderful Ted Talk a couple of years ago regarding public perceptions of how to properly address/help addicts. Shockingly, shaming them was not exactly at the top of productive strategies.

To me, with everything said and considered, I think Jude Law’s thoughts with regards to online judgment are perhaps a good road map to consider: “I’m a great believer in appreciating, understanding, learning, and keeping an open dialogue that makes everybody feel comfortable and everybody included. Boycotting or withdrawing support from someone who has offended is understandable and can indeed be effective, but it can also stop people from listening to one another. I’d like to think that respectful dialogue is where change lives.”

All of this considered, I find myself very much in line with what Idealich said further up this page. I will not blindly defend what can not be defended and I will not shame any women who have come forwards about how they were involved with Matt,  but neither will jump on any binary, pitchfork wagons that seek to simplify the nature of Matt himself as either fully light or dark. No one is entirely good or evil. We are all capable of both wonderful and horrible things and it seems Matt has done both over the last 3 decades. A friend of mine discussed this some in private a few weeks ago:

" I've noticed in the last few years people have lost the ability to see shades of grey and want the world to exist in black and white.  Its like if one part of a person is deplorable every aspect of that person and all they do must be deplorable.  I find this notion ridiculous.  Lets say you found out tomorrow that Abraham Lincoln savagely beat his wife.  Should we throw out the merits of the Emancipation Proclamation because of it? What if you found out one of the worlds greatest philanthropists had been cheating on his wife with a hooker, does it undo the good deeds and make them worthless? A statue of John A MacDonald was removed in Victoria because he was racist, which is absolutely terrible, but does it abolish the integral contributions to the birth of a nation? These are extreme examples I am using to illustrate a point.  I am not comparing Beautiful Midnight to the Emancipation Proclamation in importance. I am just trying to illustrate there can be a line dividing good deeds and bad and how a bad deed doesn't have to destroy the merits of a good one.  The current trend seems to be that any negative trait a person has overrides any positive ones.  But as a mature and free thinking society are we so fragile we can no longer be presented with all the information and decide on our own if a person is good, bad or most likely somewhere in between?  Few among us could live to such a standard and quite frankly if we held all art to that standard many of us would have to give up on a wide swath of things that have touched us, inspired us and brought moments of great joy and understanding to our lives because of what they were and often in spite of those who created them.

...I’ve heard many good stories about Matt too, stories where he waited around for hours after a show to sign autographs and take pictures, moments where he phoned suicidal fans in the middle of the night and stayed on the line until professional help could arrive...they also didn’t change my appreciation of the music. For me the person and the art have just always been two separate things.  It reminds me of a quote I heard once "don't worship the man because every man is corruptible.  Worship the idea because it is pure." And I suppose that’s how I feel about art and why while these allegations are upsetting it doesn’t change at all what the mans music has and still does mean to me.  Each song he wrote was created by him, but it was given meaning by each of us individually by how we let it influence our lives.  

For anyone who feels differently I of course understand, and I again hope this message doesn’t rub anyone the wrong way as it was not my intention, but I do no service to myself or others by not speaking how I truly feel on the issue.  Thanks to everyone else who has shared their thoughts and opinions here."

Again, without excusing the things that cannot be excused, I agree with the above. 

Ever since 1999 when I first heard LMU on the radio, Matt was always there challenging me to consider the world; to consider what it might be like to walk in other people’s shoes; and to consider who I wanted to be as a human being.

Hell, I even once offered to delete my account here last year because out of the 3 times he had posted here recently, 2 of them were in response to something I had said where he was essentially defending a position of his own and I felt bad that he might view this place as somewhere he always had to defend himself. In response to my private offer to delete my account, this was his initial response:

“First, DO NOT stop posting on the Bored. Second, disagree with me as MUCH as you can. Because in that void, which in these times is a vacuum, lives debate.”

He could have gotten rid of someone who challenged him and caused him to have to defend himself simply by taking me up on my offer, but he didn’t. That, to me, said something tangible about his character. To be very clear, again, I’m not saying any of the above excuses what he has allegedly done. It doesn’t. What all of it considered though does is remind me that people can have 2, or even more, sides to them.

Final Thoughts

I guess the only last thing to consider here is what is an appropriate response to all of the things we have learned in the last few weeks. Given that I can only speak for myself and that it is not my place to tell others to feel, I can only share my own thoughts. Without excusing anything, or taking any sides, I will not judge anyone: not the people sharing their stories or even Matt himself. When it comes to those sharing their stories they are obviously coming from a place of hurt (justified or unjustified; black, white or grey).

When it comes to Matt, again, I keep returning to the phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner". In doing so it should allow me to remember the good aspects of Matt's personality and psyche, while still condemning the alleged behavior that may have resulted from his bipolarity and (imo) very possible personality disorder/addictions.

To those who have been hurt by him, I hope you find closure/healing and I appreciate you sharing your stories.

To Matt, as a fan of yours for over 2 decades, I do not hate you or think you are a horrible person. I think you are simply like countless individuals I have met over the last 12 years- incredibly flawed, but absolutely not without redeemable traits either. If you were to get yourself admitted to a concurrent disorders/dual diagnosis program somewhere in B.C I truly do think that- like so many other people I’ve met who have destroyed their lives/hurt those around them- you would begin be able to find the missing pieces whose invisibility has led to all of this madness. Once having done so- like so many I have met- you might be able to excise the darkness that resides in you and start living a better life. As Jeff Tweedy from Wilco (who also suffers from bipolarity) once said, contrary to the popular belief, you don’t need destruction in order to breath creation.

I hope, as crappy as this has been for most involved, that rather than make anyone weaker, more angry or bitter, or mentally unstable, that in the long run this will eventually do the opposite and create an opportunity for people to heal, grow, and move beyond the hurt that has resulted from all of this.

Thanks for reading.

I think this is the most informative and thoughtful post in here. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

[Moonlight_Graham]

1 hour ago, daniel_v said:

To expand upon that point, while again I do not say the following to excuse the alleged behavior in any way, I do think it worthwhile to remind people there is a difference between condemning a behavioral pattern/actions that come about as a result of psychosis vs. condemning the actual human being who suffers from them. Indeed, to me it's one of those "hate the sin, not the sinner" type situations. To get at this point, it is worth examining/reminding ourselves of some of the symptoms that sometimes accompany Type 1 Bipolarity, aside from the polar or mixed mood swings:

 

Saying this behaviour is due to psychosis is excusing the behaviour.  It's saying he's not responsible for it and blaming it on an illness.  It's nonsense. 

 

I'm sure his life hasn't been easy due to mental illness, but i've also never seen the guy punch Stu in the mouth for missing a chord., or rage-quit a show like Axl Rose (another bipolarity sufferer), or suddenly jump in the crowd and hump a fan.  He may have also been in states of psychosis before, but in 20+ years I've never witnessed the man lose control other than maybe a terse comment, which could be a result of a mood disorder and be excusable.  But it's a much different thing to continually use your fame to target attractive female fans on your follower list on social media and make elaborate arrangements to cheat on your wife/gf and perpetually make lies about it in order to get your rocks off.  All of this behaviour is done behind a veil because it's meant to deceive in order not to be caught, because he knows what he's doing.  If your balls are blue the proper thing to do, which most horny guys do, is to look up some porn and yank one off.

 

And I agree nobody should hate the man, there are good and evil deeds not good and evil people.

[daniel_v]

2 hours ago, Moonlight_Graham said:

 

Saying this behaviour is due to psychosis is excusing the behaviour.  It's saying he's not responsible for it and blaming it on an illness.  It's nonsense. 

 

I'm sure his life hasn't been easy due to mental illness, but i've also never seen the guy punch Stu in the mouth for missing a chord., or rage-quit a show like Axl Rose (another bipolarity sufferer), or suddenly jump in the crowd and hump a fan.  He may have also been in states of psychosis before, but in 20+ years I've never witnessed the man lose control other than maybe a terse comment, which could be a result of a mood disorder and be excusable.  But it's a much different thing to continually use your fame to target attractive female fans on your follower list on social media and make elaborate arrangements to cheat on your wife/gf and perpetually make lies about it in order to get your rocks off.  All of this behaviour is done behind a veil because it's meant to deceive in order not to be caught, because he knows what he's doing.  If your balls are blue the proper thing to do, which most horny guys do, is to look up some porn and yank one off.

 

And I agree nobody should hate the man, there are good and evil deeds not good and evil people.

I understand what you’re saying, but have to respectfully disagree. To excuse the behavior would be to ignore it and say Matt just can’t help it. I do not believe I said that (and if that is the interpretation some people got, that was not my intention). What I did try to explain is that there is a difference between excusing something and understanding it. After all, excusing something equals ignoring/forgiving it (which is not my place to do here); understanding something equals examining why something occurred so that it can be productively addressed and prevented in the future. 

[Idealich]

17 hours ago, daniel_v said:

After all, excusing something equals ignoring/forgiving it (which is not my place to do here); understanding something equals examining why something occurred so that it can be productively addressed and prevented in the future. 

 

I agree 100%- this is exactly the way I'm approaching the situation. I also have quite a bit of experience working in the mental health field Daniel, so I appreciate your perspective here.

 

It does now seem that some of MG's behaviour may have crossed the threshold into what we would deem as criminal in Canada, specifically the non-consensual sharing of intimate images (based on HM most recent posts on IG). This suggests that there could be legal consequences going forward. This of course, also suggests that we won't hear much from MG going forward that isn't filtered through his legal team.

 

If anyone is interested, here is the specific offense that may be relevant here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-162.1.html

[Chris85]

The https://www.matthewgood.org website is looking pretty light now.

[adrianf74]

39 minutes ago, Chris85 said:

The https://www.matthewgood.org website is looking pretty light now.

Very much so. For those who still like the best song on Avalanche, at least they weren’t pink pills...

Edited February 24, 2021 by adrianf74