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calgarydave

Remembrance Day

By calgarydave, in Open Discussion

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Moonlight_Graham

Moonlight_Graham

Posted
Posted (edited)
what is there to reflect on, exactly?

Are you fucking kidding me? Grab a history textbook.

 

For one thing, you'd either never have been born due to your grandparents & great-grandparents being dead or you'd be speaking German right now.

Edited by Moonlight_Graham
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ToadMan

ToadMan

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Posted

Myself and some fellow Canadians will be taking a moment of silence is sober reflection. As I am now expatriated I cannot attend a service, nor can I get a poppy to show my respect. I do however, feel that remembrance day is an especially important time. Lest we never forget the human cost of war.

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borntohula

borntohula

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Posted
Are you fucking kidding me?  Grab a history textbook.

 

For one thing, you'd either never have been born due to your grandparents & great-grandparents being dead or you'd be speaking German right now.

maybe i went about saying it in the wrong way.

 

i was wondering what calgary dave was going to reflect on. i am unsure of what to reflect on myself. i've had grandparents in the war as well as other family members who were in the military. i was taught, especially at school, that remembrance day was a time to reflect and remind oneself of the cost of war, as many of you have stated. but what do we learn from that exactly? as a child, i understood that being aware of the sacrifices others have made for you helps to prevent such sacrifices in the future. as i've grown older, that meaning has started to crumble under its own weight, especially considering canada's approaches to foreign policy within the past 5-10 years ... this new batch of soldiers is dying for a completely different reason. there's no romantic ideal about freedom this time, mainly because the people in afghanistan do not represent a threat to my freedom whatsoever.

 

i find it especially disturbing that war has become so ingrained in the definition of canada, that it's considered unpatriotic or ungrateful to not want to remember. in this sense, remembrance suddenly involves co-opting other people's pain and suffering, in order to define oneself and prove one's "canadianess."

 

so what do i reflect on this remembrance day that's worth reflecting on? "YOU COULDA BEEN A KRAUT!!!" nope. sorry. that doesn't work for me. it's too selfish. i'm here now, and that's all that matters. there's no point in ruminating on "what could've been" because it didn't happen. i don't think i should be guilted into "remembering" just because i may or may not exist because of something as huge as a war. the war has happened, let's at least think of what it is versus what it could have been.

 

i want to make sure that everyone here knows i'm not criticizing their beliefs or anything of that matter. i've merely become disenfranchised with the whole remembrance day celebration.

 

to end, i thought i might share a ted hughes poem that first sparked this questioning of remembrance day in me:

 

Out - "3. Remembrance Day"

 

The poppy is a wound, the poppy is the mouth

Of the grave, maybe of the womb searching--

 

A canvas-beauty puppet on a wire

Today whoring everywhere. It is years since I wore one.

 

It is more years

The shrapnel that shattered my father's paybook

 

Gripped me, and all his dead

Gripped him to a time

 

He no more than they could outgrow, but, cast into one, like iron,

Hung deeper than refreshing of ploughs

 

In the woe-dark under my mother's eye--

One anchor

 

Holding my juvenile neck bowed to the dunkings of the Atlantic.

So goodbye to that bloody-minded flower.

 

You dead bury your dead.

Goodbye to the cenotaphs on my mother's breasts.

 

Goodbye to all the remaindered charms of my father's survival.

Let England close. Let the green sea-anemone close.

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bishopx

bishopx

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That was somehow wrong yet funny at the same time...

 

For all of the Canadian Sailors who lost their lives protecting Allied shipping on the Eastern end of the Atlantic, for all the Canadian Soldiers who lost there lives in France, and Germany. Seems like a good day to honor those who sacrificed for your country.

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calgarydave

calgarydave

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i was wondering what calgary dave was going to reflect on.

Ahh fair enough question.

 

Both my grandfathers flew in the war.

My paternal grandfather joined the RAF in '36 flew 2 tours of duty in Africa before being transferred to Britain where he became a squadron commander.

He met King George, and Churchill (twice). Actually he was assigned one day to drive Churchill around to do some troop inspections, and this was during the time when they were really afraid of German invasion, so all the roads signs were taken down, and they actually got lost for like 5 hours.

 

My grandmother was on one of the last civilian boats to go from Canada to Europe, she traveled over there and then onto Africa so that she and my grandfather could get married.

 

My other grandfather flew as an advanced weather scout. So he would be sent ahead of the bombers by himself to scout targets to ensure that they could be seen. Quite a dangerous task as I gather.

 

For me, the reason why I'm probably a tad overzealous when it comes to remembrance day is because when my grandfathers were alive, I never appreciated what they did in the war, and its something I really greatly regret.

 

Also I just think with so many of our soldiers overseas right now fighting for other peoples freedoms, that we really need to stop and spend a day where we all express our thanks for what they do, and hope and pray that everyone makes it home to their loved ones

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garsk

garsk

Posted
Posted
That was somehow wrong yet funny at the same time...

 

For all of the Canadian Sailors who lost their lives protecting Allied shipping on the Eastern end of the Atlantic, for all the Canadian Soldiers who lost there lives in France, and Germany. Seems like a good day to honor those who sacrificed for your country.

don't forget that we helped against the Japanese.

 

 

and also the Korean War, Vietnam, all those "peacekeeping" missions, and various wars in between.

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Moonlight_Graham

Moonlight_Graham

Posted
Posted
maybe i went about saying it in the wrong way.

 

i was wondering what calgary dave was going to reflect on. i am unsure of what to reflect on myself. i've had grandparents in the war as well as other family members who were in the military. i was taught, especially at school, that remembrance day was a time to reflect and remind oneself of the cost of war, as many of you have stated. but what do we learn from that exactly? as a child, i understood that being aware of the sacrifices others have made for you helps to prevent such sacrifices in the future. as i've grown older, that meaning has started to crumble under its own weight, especially considering canada's approaches to foreign policy within the past 5-10 years ... this new batch of soldiers is dying for a completely different reason. there's no romantic ideal about freedom this time, mainly because the people in afghanistan do not represent a threat to my freedom whatsoever.

 

i find it especially disturbing that war has become so ingrained in the definition of canada, that it's considered unpatriotic or ungrateful to not want to remember. in this sense, remembrance suddenly involves co-opting other people's pain and suffering, in order to define oneself and prove one's "canadianess."

 

so what do i reflect on this remembrance day that's worth reflecting on? "YOU COULDA BEEN A KRAUT!!!" nope. sorry. that doesn't work for me. it's too selfish. i'm here now, and that's all that matters. there's no point in ruminating on "what could've been" because it didn't happen. i don't think i should be guilted into "remembering" just because i may or may not exist because of something as huge as a war. the war has happened, let's at least think of what it is versus what it could have been.

 

i want to make sure that everyone here knows i'm not criticizing their beliefs or anything of that matter. i've merely become disenfranchised with the whole remembrance day celebration.

Well, i'm no fan of war either. I do believe in non-violent passive resistance & diplomacy as an alternative. But i believe pacifism only works if your opponent respects human life or is at least pressured to. Worked for Gandhi because his British oppressors would not kill people who were standing around, and if they did attack there would be a public outcry in Britain. But a monster like Hitler wouldn't care. If people disobeyed him he would have simply run them over and killed them all, or enslaved/tortured them.

 

In the case of WWII, i believe it was unfortunately a necessary war. We owe our freedom to those who fought for us and the many who died for us. I believe that is worth at least 1 day a year to remember & honour them.

 

As for the other wars, there can be much debate on their merits, but i think most of the soldiers at least thought they were fighting in them for the right reasons, which was to protect our country. The vast majority were/are too young to even know any better.

 

You have the right to do or think whatever you like on Nov 11th. You don't have to wear a poppy. But maybe consider why you even have a right to those choices to begin with.

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Dan #3

Dan #3

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Posted

For the most part I think that the stigma is on the Nazis and not on Germans. The rest is jokes on a subject that is now distant. 'Cos I've made a bunch of holocaust/Nazi jokes, but you'll never hear me say "and so she says; "genocide in Darfur." Har-har-har."

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