some post about degrees

[Ryan44]

im taking architecture.

 

i dont care what any of the posts above say, i just wnana let everyone know.

 

someday u will all be living in buildings and houses designed by me.

[somnambulist]

Because that's everyone's dream.

[heyrabbit]

it's really easy to belittle intro-level courses, which is what it sounds like you're doing.

true.but the same applies to any other socio course

[cringleman]

Let's be frank.

 

I'm a Biology student at Dalhousie University. It's neither widely considered the hardest program, nor the toughest or most well-respected school (though, if you want to do Marine Bio, good luck finding a better place, in this country), but I'll say that's irrelevent.

 

I used to be an engineering student. I spent a year and a a half at this institution studying biological engineering, only to realize that I hated it. I know people in essentially everything -- Histoy, English and Acting to Geology, Computer Science, Math and Neuroscience. I also know a damn lot of scholarship-holding engineering students.

 

None of them impress me as more intelligent, hard-working or better-educated than the others.

 

The person with the most well-rounded education I know is a double major in History and Political Science, who only has three days of classes a week.

 

Engineering is a programme which is artificially hard -- I've taken it: the courses are simple, and the workload is far too much for anyone to reasonably handle, simply to simulate 'stress,' which is a spotty attempt, at best. Mostly, it just turns off brilliant (and I'm certainly not referring to me) students from the programme, because they can't understand why it's at all hard.

 

I can write as well as most English students, and interpret data as well as a reasonable majority of Physics students, but there's a single thing I can't do: understand why people still manage to get into pissing contests about what degree is 'harder' or 'better.' Leastways do I understand why who gets a job faster is, at all, relevent to any of it -- if you're just interested in getting into the workforce, then you'll find a college much more efficient at this, and you've definitely lost sight of the goal of a University (the pursuit of knowledge).

 

You know what's a great degree? Philosophy. We'd all be lost without it.

 

So's Costume Studies.

 

Hell, I live with a guy who dropped out of school, altogether. He works in a call centre. He's smarter that most folks who're in his old programme (CS), and certainly almost as well-rounded as I am, without a formal education.

 

Factor that into your stereotypes and generalizations.

[ToadMan]

i read all this... everyones arguments and everything.. and i still don't understand why my education is somehow less than anyone else's. i'm a first year university student. whether or not i'm in english or physics doesn't matter. i paid the same amount to get here, i worked just is hard (they worked hard at physics, i worked hard at english. same amount of effort, just different subjects) and at the end of all this i will have the same paper as everyone else tht graduates. to think that your degree is better or more real or whatever is crap. get off your high horse and realize you need english teachers and psychiatrists just as much as you need anyone else in any other field.

I have some comments on difficulty based on my university:

 

1. English and Social/Humanitis are Class 1 tuition, that means they cost less than 'hard' sciences or engineering

2. First year engineers take 6 classes per term, that is 18 c.u. An Arts & Sci major cannot take more than 15 c.u. in a term without special permission from the dean.

3. Disproportionate graduates to work force demand. My university graduates huge numbers of people from English, Philosophy, etc, each year. The job demand for these degrees is so far bellow the number of graduates, that the degree ends up having virtually no real value.

4. A & S students seem to have time to protest rising tuition fees, while all the people in 'real' programs are actually studying and doing work. If the degree was worth the money, then you wouldn't be worried about the amount of debt.

 

I don't write off that any of these degrees are not worth while, but there is a serious lack of quality in some of these departments. Sciences and Engineering tend to only attract the kind of people that can do the work.

[Shiri]

Of course there're easier and harder subjects and degress. I think everyone can agree with me that studying to become a doctor is harder and takes more time and effort than to study being a teacher for example.

 

But as for one profession/degree being consider higher/better, that's just personal, some people are drawn to realistic subjects like biology and physics and some are into literature and history. It doesn't mean someone is above the other because of it.

[Some Random]

can't we all, as science and arts graduates/future graduates, come together as one to focus our disdain on business students? ;)

[Prometheon]

can't we all, as science and arts graduates/future graduates, come together as one to focus our disdain on business students? ;)

Holy shit. Represent!

[borntohula]

it's really easy to belittle intro-level courses, which is what it sounds like you're doing.

true.but the same applies to any other socio course

wow, that's a load of bullshit.

[Some Random]

and how about the law student? i mean, sure, they might start out as an arts student, but then they move on to the real meat and potatoes of the actual law degree: ritualistic sacrifice, demonic chanting, and vampirism.

[soundless_space]

I went to school for culinary arts. They actually put us to work for that degree. We ran a restaurant the last semester. They were making money off of us paying to go to school there.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is that even though I went to a 2-year college for culinary arts instead of a 4-year university for psychology, I worked just as hard and paid just as much tuition as anyone else.

 

The good thing about culinary arts is that you don't really have to take too many classes outside of the field you're majoring in. The math classes required were all hospitality and restaurant related. Whoo.

[Shiri]

Yeah, that's why I'll be studying graphic design, no boring math or unrelated classes.

[mself084]

ecnarf - the reason engineering students pay more for tuition (I think about $800-900 more a year, in comparison with some of my friends) is because of lab times, materials, computer use, etc. Social sciences and humanities pay less because we don't need that stuff - instead we get stuck buying expensive coursepacks, and most of our work is based upon research done in the library/on electronic journals.

 

I just graduated with a B. Soc. Sci, and yeah I heard it from engineering students... but I lived with one last year, and we both worked the same: I was up til 6am writing a 20 page paper, he was up til 6am working out equations and chemistry stuff. Who cares what anyone else thinks... if you work your ass off for 4 years, be proud of yourself.

 

P.S. If an engineering student says "oooo look at the little history bitch" to anyone on here, ask him how many hot chicks are in his engineering program... and they'll shut up.

[Lauren]

english majors are like 1:7 males to females. at least at carleton.

[miles2025]

Environmental Geography ftw. I study policies and learn how to make them and stuff.

[no yu begin wher i end]

P.S. If an engineering student says "oooo look at the little history bitch" to anyone on here, ask him how many hot chicks are in his engineering program... and they'll shut up.

Haha no kidding. One of my friends who got direct entry into engineering at U of M was telling me that out of ~150 direct entry students, maybe 5 were girls, and only one was "okay."

 

I also knew several people who took plenty of hard as fuck courses in high school (see: calculus, chemistry, discrete), got the marks that would have gotten them into any engineering program in the country, but went into the humanities because it's what they wanted to do. I really have nothing on those people.

 

I'm currently doing humanities courses, although it really is just mindless filler because I'm trying to get into music and become a teacher. I did the IB program at my school (for those of you who don't know, IB is pretty much an advanced academic program and you get university credits for a lot of stuff, and most of the different subject curriculums are at least university level). I got 90 in calculus, 85 in chemistry and 83 in higher level physics (no small feat, I can assure you with no exaggeration whatsoever). But, I got a 95 in higher level history, and my two history courses at U of M both basically re-hash everything I learnt from grades 11 and 12.

 

This is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if you're like me and want to teach (and there's going to be a huge demand for teachers in the next 10 years because many are starting to reach retirement) music, then do you do engineering, or just stuff you can fall back on (either way, I'm going to teach)? True, that's a pretty half-assed excuse, but I think that after busting my ass and fucking up my health and personal life, I've earned it ;) .

[nerd glasses]

Wow, I had no idea this kind of crap existed in the post-sec. universe. Study what you study and realize there's a place in this world for people who aren't the same as you. That goes for Engineering students VS Lit. students VS Business students VS anything/everything else. All education has merit and value in its own right.

[ecnarf]

i read all this... everyones arguments and everything.. and i still don't understand why my education is somehow less than anyone else's. i'm a first year university student. whether or not i'm in english or physics doesn't matter. i paid the same amount to get here, i worked just is hard (they worked hard at physics, i worked hard at english. same amount of effort, just different subjects) and at the end of all this i will have the same paper as everyone else tht graduates. to think that your degree is better or more real or whatever is crap. get off your high horse and realize you need english teachers and psychiatrists just as much as you need anyone else in any other field.

Just out of curiosity, what was your average for the 6 courses you submitted to the universities you applied to?

 

I usually don't like being this much of an asshole, but you didn't even get acceptance into Western (which would give clues to what your average was), and you didn't take any really tough science or math courses. You can work hard in English, but working hard in English means reading a complex book and analyzing characters and plot developments. Working hard in math or science involves learning shit that is entirely new to you and memorizing complex rules for, say, finding derivatives of various types of equations or THE FUCKING QUANTUM THEORY OF THE ATOM. I'm guessing you didn't learn that in English. I'm not saying that there isn't a need for teachers or psychiatrists, but please don't think that I believe for a second that English requires as much work or was as difficult as calculus or chemistry.

Edited September 18, 2006 by ecnarf

[borntohula]

but usually an english B.A. doesn't suffice on its own, the hard work gets made up in other areas, depending on whether the person goes to teachers college afterward, writes an honors thesis, does post-grad work on something more specific... an engineering degree on the other hand, will suffice on its own.

 

as it goes (at least with my experience in comparison to my peers) an english student writes generally more papers for every semester than any other major. we also read more frequenlty and in larger volumes than any other major. when it was at its worst, i was reading a book a week for every class.

 

if it were an engineering degree, more practical work would be done... however, in this case, while you're learning "shit that's entirely new to you" and things, we're digesting books that have historical/political/sociological/philosophical contexts to them which are equally as new and arent necessarily more or less difficult to apply.

 

i didn't take english because it was easy, i dont think many people have that kind of thought when it comes to their futures. i was simply not as good in math as i was english. i had taken things like calculus and physics in my last years of high school, but frankly didnt enjoy them nearly enough to pursue anything in those fields.

Edited September 18, 2006 by borntohula

[ecnarf]

The difference with reading books with significant historical/political/religious/philosophical significance is that it is still in English. You can read a sentence a few times and have it committed to memory. Science and math isn't like that at all... most of the time it's hard to even grasp the logic behind certain operations. I've done both, by the way - written 13 page essays on the effects of the vietnam war on american foreign policy which required hours upon hours of research and note-taking before I could even write up a thesis, and while it definitely required work, there were no moments of sitting at my desk absolutely stuck on something not knowing what the fuck is supposed to happen with certain vectors or what have you. Yes, it's more time consuming, but spending a weekend writing an essay is considerably less intense than studying for a Calculus exam. There have been times where I've honestly woken up, looked at a digital clock and wondered what sort of operation I was supposed to do to derive what time it was from the two numbers on the screen because I was so engrossed in Calculus.

[Azalroth]

english majors are like 1:7 males to females. at least at carleton.

You should look at our course....out of 100 males there might be 1 female and that's not including our deaf guys interpreters (2 females...he knows how to pick'em)

[ecnarf]

How do you flirt with deaf interpreters? The obvious hand-touch is out of the question because your hands are otherwise engaged.

[supercanuk]

This is one of the most enlightening threads I

Edited September 18, 2006 by supercanuk

[ecnarf]

Clearly, math is not your strength. If you do 2 hours of studying for 1 hour of class work, a social sci will do 30 hours a week and a scientist will do 50.

 

EDIT: For the sake of intellectual honesty, a science student won't really do 50 hours a week, but more like 40. You don't need to study 6 hours for a 3 hour lab, and I've got 9 lab/tutorial hours per week. I'm just saying.

Edited September 18, 2006 by ecnarf

[garsk]

ecnarf, i love how you got university figured out in a matter of weeks, (and please dont look down at me for being in college). and your right, the engineering degrees and such will more then likely get you great job once your out of university... but in the end, your going to be taking orders from a guy who has a business degree, (maybe even from the University of Western Ontario).

Edited September 18, 2006 by garsk